wheaters
Elio Addict
P&W 207C
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The Elio Engine
- Thread starter ls10
- Start date
P&W 207C
RKing
Elio Addict
Nice ride wheaters !
I suspect the Elio engine will be assembled on a manual line with few automated stations. There will be lift assists and a conveyor no doubt. The engine on the dyno would have been assembled to the same process parameters and sequence as the production intent, first validation build "offline". There is, generally speaking, no difference in a pilot build and a production engine. The reason is ,just as you stated, you would then have to test another "different" engine. The testing is providing data on the engine hardware and the process of assembly. Yes this engine is built to exact print spec, productions engines will vary within established tolerances. Those tolerances are part of the engineering and testing.
I'm curious about testing the production engines!?! I know nothing about the process, but everyone seems on the edge of their seat for the results of the prototype engine. I know, I'm one of those people too! However, every single part of the prototype engine is a "hand made" piece & was hand assembled. This is the engine being tested...
The actual production engine is going to be mass produced parts, put together by machine.
So, my question is, when they roll that first production engine off the line, will they dyno test that engine as well, or just assume it's gonna work as good as the prototype because the computer said it would?
Maybe this is a nill issue, due to factors that I'm not aware of, but it seems logical to me that a hand-crafted, hand built prototype engine & a mass produced, machine built engine may not be EXACTLY, 100% identical & therefore, a production engine should also be dyno tested. If this is the case, do we wait another 6 months while they dyno the production engine? Or is dyno testing a production engine not necessary? If not, what would be the reasoning for not testing a production engine?
Ignorant & Curious!
I suspect the Elio engine will be assembled on a manual line with few automated stations. There will be lift assists and a conveyor no doubt. The engine on the dyno would have been assembled to the same process parameters and sequence as the production intent, first validation build "offline". There is, generally speaking, no difference in a pilot build and a production engine. The reason is ,just as you stated, you would then have to test another "different" engine. The testing is providing data on the engine hardware and the process of assembly. Yes this engine is built to exact print spec, productions engines will vary within established tolerances. Those tolerances are part of the engineering and testing.
RUCRAYZE
Elio Addict
Is there an explanation why only one engine has been built?
It would seem to me, that the future of EM rests heavily on the success of the engine's performance, i.e. speed and mileage
I can't imagine it would cost 10x the amount of one to build the 10, EM is too smart to limit it to one?, they've had this one running from middle of November, and to find out even now a slight flaw, will easily set back the process 6 weeks. However, if it's a matter of cost, then .........
Perhaps I'm not the first to raise this, but haven't found it in a search.
No need to flame, I'm in it to see it thru.
It would seem to me, that the future of EM rests heavily on the success of the engine's performance, i.e. speed and mileage
I can't imagine it would cost 10x the amount of one to build the 10, EM is too smart to limit it to one?, they've had this one running from middle of November, and to find out even now a slight flaw, will easily set back the process 6 weeks. However, if it's a matter of cost, then .........
Perhaps I'm not the first to raise this, but haven't found it in a search.
No need to flame, I'm in it to see it thru.
zelio
Elio Addict
No flame here. However, think about making 10 of an engine that during testing shows a flaw of some kind. Then instead of fixing or correcting 1 engine they have to do 10. This is a prototype engine and therefore hand built. That would be pretty pricey no matter how you look at it. If they test this engine and make all the corrections on it then when they build the engines that will actually go in an Elio there is less likelyhood of there being problems. I don't know if I read this somewhere or it is my own interpretation, however, it makes sense to me to do it this way. :-) Z
Yeh, yeh, I know I am totally biased and not the least bit humble about my opinions but as a person who creates things I look at the way things are built differently. Therefore, I stick to what I said.
RUCRAYZE
Elio Addict
just one small machine casting flaw, a damage from a test, the need to possibly change out parts would allow for the quick interchange, and modifications as the testing progressed. There cannot be ANY type of defect. An error on one unit might make it easier to changed out. To put the future success on one new, NOT off the shelf unit, seems to be risky. But that's just me sitting here, and hopefully all will go as planned. thanks for your insight,
zelio
Elio Addict
Not so much insight as it is speculation. We will get there. I know the waiting is hard but we will get there. :-) Z
We actually asked Jerome Vassallo this question in Charlotte when discussing the engine development program. The first thing to understand is that EM is not the only one making these decisions but instead has a budget they have developed with IAV which allows for efficient and economic engine development and it was IAV that decided that only one engine was necessary at this time as the budget only allows for testing one engine at a time in this initial phase and ordering more castings would simply be locking in any flaws.
IAV is conducting a very methodical testing procedure and while it is possible to break something major the testing would be shut down for a while either way as they would have to find out what went wrong and what can be done to fix it before proceeding. This first phase of engine testing is more about ensuring that the block and head materials as well as overall engine block and cylinder head design are what is expected so that there are no surprises later on. This is really the critical phase as the subsequent testing is all about refining the exact engine parameters within the context of mechanical moving parts which are relatively easy to replace or upgrade as the process continues.
ecdriver711
Elio Addict
- Joined
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Well, in a couple of months we should get some updates with photos of the early development phase. My guess.
Let's hope!!!!!!!!
Charlie G
Elio Addict
Quick note on the dyno testing:
My folks were down at the Richmond event on Saturday (12/20) and my dad was told they were still air testing the engine (running it with air rather than fuel).
We knew that would be a part of the testing procedure, but I was interested to hear that it was still in the air phase a month after testing was reportedly scheduled to start.
My folks were down at the Richmond event on Saturday (12/20) and my dad was told they were still air testing the engine (running it with air rather than fuel).
We knew that would be a part of the testing procedure, but I was interested to hear that it was still in the air phase a month after testing was reportedly scheduled to start.