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Elio Motors Tech Talk V24 - The Elio Engine - Your Questions Answered

Grumpy Cat

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More Engine Talk


The Elio Motors engine inevitably generates quite a buzz. So much so, that following the release of our most recent Tech Talks on the Elio Motors 3-Cylinder Block Program (click here) and then specifically the Cylinder Head (click here), our Elio supporters asked the Elio team to answer even more questions.

In this week’s Tech Talk, we are happy to oblige with the assistance of Kody Klindt, Project Development Director/Powertrain System for our Supplier/Partner IAV (click here). Below Kody addresses several of the most asked questions.

Can you address anticipated maintenance costs?

Powertrain durability is still being tested and will be shared as information is gleaned. However keep in mind that the engine uses standard production materials, components, processes and established technologies. There is no indication that maintenance costs will be any different than current vehicles.

It’s been communicated that current, off-the-shelf parts will be utilized to save money from R&D and be easier to maintain given the ease and availability of parts. For this reason, wasn’t the old GEO motor going to be used? Why stray from that concept to custom unknowns with no previous line of parts on market?

To produce a replica Geo motor would require all major components to be retooled. If you have to produce new tooling you might as well build them with known design improvements that enhance powertrain efficiency, performance, fuel economy and cost. Think of the Elio Motors engine as an evaluation of earlier proven technology.

How different is this than the Suzuki Swift / Geo Metro 3-cylinder engine of the early 90's here in the US that got about 50 mpg highway?

The Elio engine is a different engine than the Mule engines. The original powertrain concept was to take the Suzuki Swift / Geo Metro engine and modify it with modern features. Once early development started, it was noted this concept would not get the fuel economy targets. A new engine was designed to be able to meet the fuel economy.

Wouldn't a direct injected engine be more economical?

Direct injection is a great technology to help with fuel economy, but it comes at a premium cost. You have high-pressure injectors, a high-pressure fuel rail and a high-pressure fuel pump. One of the design goals for this project is to keep it an economically feasible design (a.k.a. financially economical). This aforementioned extra expense and complexity was considered unnecessary to meet the powertrain targets. As the product further evolves, direct injection may be a consideration.

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Air Flow of Intake Port into combustion chamber

Why the decision to design a new engine without direct injection, compression ignition or lined cylinders?

Direct injection and diesel engines have a much higher initial cost. This would put the powertrain outside of the budget target and is unnecessary to meet the performance and fuel economy objectives at this stage. For this size of engine block, it is one of the most robust designs for an aluminum engine block ever produced.

Has Elio Motors conducted any long-term road testing of this vehicle to work out all of the bugs?

Mileage accumulation and vehicle durability is in the development plan for this vehicle and will be shared once findings are available.

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Fuel Injector Spray Target

Why no Duel Over Head Cam (DOHC) or Variable Value Timing (VVT)?

Both of these technologies can help with fuel economy. However, both cost more than the current design parameter. As the product evolves, this technology could quite possibly be considered for future model years.

Will timing be controlled via chain or belt?

The current engine design is chain drive.

Are you going to be using an Iron sleeve or an electroplated (i.e. Nikasil) liner?

The Elio engine will be using a proven technology from Flame-Spray Industries, Inc (FSI) (click here) called thermal spray.

Will the engine be able to run different fuel types?

The engine is not being designed currently to run on ethanol or other alternative fuels. It is being designed to perform efficiently on regular pump gasoline.

Are you taking advantage of lost foam for your engine castings?

For the production process we are looking at high pressure die cast.

Can you answer why you have placed a support bridge on the head for the timing chain housing? It would seem that this support is going to hinder the installation of the timing chain not only for initial manufacture but also for serviceability later. Or, is that bridge only there for the casting process and will be removed before final installation?

This bridge is there for casting only. It will not be there once the part has been machined.

Are most of these features already present in most modern engines? My understanding is, free flow of intake air and exhaust are most helpful at high load. At low load the throttle itself puts much more restriction on the air path than anything else. Or does the open path enable better combustion even at low loads?

You are correct with your statement on free flow, but it does help on the tumble and swirl in a light load area. The higher EGR flow will also allow the throttle to open more during light load operation reducing the air path restriction and associated pumping losses.

What about an ultra tall final gear? Six speeds would be nice.

The transmission gearing is fairly tall which is how we are getting some of the higher fuel economy on the highway. We did not want to design a complete new transmission as well. As for six-speed transmission, it would not have fit in the frame rails without a complete new design.

The same EGR technology hurt Ford for several years. I’m hoping this EGR means something else.

EGR stands for Exhaust Gas Recirculation. Virtually all modern engines have some form of EGR on their engine to meet emission standards. In addition to Elio Motors using EGR for emission standards, it is also being used to reduce throttling losses. As for Ford, they have been using EGR for 30 years now on most of their engines.

Is the engine capable of forced induction like turbochargers or superchargers?
This is a great question. The engine was not designed to be forced inducted. Forced induction needs to be designed as part to the engine architecture; the Elio engine was not designed for this. Forced induction cause more stress and strain on every component, from the base block, bearing caps, cylinder head gaskets and cylinder head bolts to the heat rejection needed because of the compressed air. In addition to designing an engine for forced induction, the cost of components are more expensive for these type of engines. One of Elio's major goals was an inexpensive highly efficient power train.

General Comments

For Elio's claims that there is no 'revolutionary' technology in the car and it’s built out of existing technology, the engine is going to be a big deal in advancing mpg. And, if the design of the engine is applied even to other power plants to other cars, it could be a leap forward to reducing gas consumption all around.

Possible, but this engine is being designed to operate an Elio vehicle, meaning a lightweight, aerodynamic vehicle.

I'd love to see those same views after all the mating surfaces and valve seats, etc. are ground.

Once the parts are machined we can take some more pictures before assembly.

Looks like Elio is getting closer to having a complete engine.

Yes we are. Glad to have our Elio supporters along for the ride.
 

goofyone

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Nice general overview of the drivetrain technology. Did not really give me any new information but instead pointed out some details which were mostly mentioned in various previous Tech Talks and sometimes were easy to overlook. Also reinforced what we already knew about a lot of design decisions being based around the most inexpensive way to accomplish their goals.
 

olddog1946

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Nice general overview of the drivetrain technology. Did not really give me any new information but instead pointed out some details which were mostly mentioned in various previous Tech Talks and sometimes were easy to overlook. Also reinforced what we already knew about a lot of design decisions being based around the most inexpensive way to accomplish their goals.

I agree with ya..still a lot of generalities but a good read anyway. I figure the sooner I get mine, the sooner I can start on the longevity testing, lol.
 

eddie66

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There were two questions I would have liked to see answered in the Tech Talk.

How close to completion is the engine?

When can we expect to see it?
 
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Johnny Acree

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Will the engine be able to run different fuel types? The engine is not being designed currently to run on ethanol or other alternative fuels. It is being designed to perform efficiently on regular pump gasoline

What? Does that mean no E10, or is E10 and E15 "regular pump gas". Or was he saying no 100% ethanol?
 

Grumpy Cat

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Will the engine be able to run different fuel types? The engine is not being designed currently to run on ethanol or other alternative fuels. It is being designed to perform efficiently on regular pump gasoline

What? Does that mean no E10, or is E10 and E15 "regular pump gas". Or was he saying no 100% ethanol?
Most likely no E85 or higher.
 

goofyone

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Will the engine be able to run different fuel types? The engine is not being designed currently to run on ethanol or other alternative fuels. It is being designed to perform efficiently on regular pump gasoline

What? Does that mean no E10, or is E10 and E15 "regular pump gas". Or was he saying no 100% ethanol?

I will have to search for the quote but when asked in the past they have responded E10 and E15 would be fine but no E85 support.
 
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