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Elio Turbo

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I have seen many posts about turbo charging one of these. Just thought I would start my own thread.

The theory of turbo charging is to increase the engines power output by sacrificing MPG dramatically when in need. I am not against this for short demands up to 15 seconds at a time.

Many 4 cylinder cars with turbo outperform their V6 counterparts in both horsepower and fuel efficiency. Why is this? A car designed with a N/A engine has a larger displacement and more fuel guzzling characteristics to have the on demand power for pulling out from a red light, pulling on to a highway, or passing. Basically all the actions needed while driving except maintaining speed on the highway.

Most turbo charged cars have the engine size optimize for fuel efficiency at maintaining highway cruzing speeds. This means a smaller, lighter, and more fuel efficient engine with some extra power on call when needed.

Pros and cons of turbo.

Pros:
More power as needed.
Better overall fuel economy when used properly.
Smaller engine size needed = less weight.

Cons:
Higher pressures needed cause stress on head gaskets, bearings, etc.
If engine not designed for added stress = short life expectancy.
Extra components needed from factory as an option can range from $500 to $1500 "my estimate for the engine size."
Turbos require a cool down period before turning of the engine.

I should explain the last con further. Most people with turbos break them for this reason. The turbo when running has the flames from the exhaust running directly inside them. They require an oil supply for the bearings they spin on. When run hard they can get red hot. If the engine gets shut off while the turbo is hot ( Just recently provided boost ) The oil supply stops that cools the bearings. The oil on a red hot turbo then burns onto the parts seizing them up.

Turbo owners let them cool off at idle for at least 30 seconds every time you park before turning off the engine.
 

carzes

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I have seen many posts about turbo charging one of these. Just thought I would start my own thread.

The theory of turbo charging is to increase the engines power output by sacrificing MPG dramatically when in need. I am not against this for short demands up to 15 seconds at a time.

Many 4 cylinder cars with turbo outperform their V6 counterparts in both horsepower and fuel efficiency. Why is this? A car designed with a N/A engine has a larger displacement and more fuel guzzling characteristics to have the on demand power for pulling out from a red light, pulling on to a highway, or passing. Basically all the actions needed while driving except maintaining speed on the highway.

Most turbo charged cars have the engine size optimize for fuel efficiency at maintaining highway cruzing speeds. This means a smaller, lighter, and more fuel efficient engine with some extra power on call when needed.

Pros and cons of turbo.

Pros:
More power as needed.
Better overall fuel economy when used properly.
Smaller engine size needed = less weight.

Cons:
Higher pressures needed cause stress on head gaskets, bearings, etc.
If engine not designed for added stress = short life expectancy.
Extra components needed from factory as an option can range from $500 to $1500 "my estimate for the engine size."
Turbos require a cool down period before turning of the engine.

I should explain the last con further. Most people with turbos break them for this reason. The turbo when running has the flames from the exhaust running directly inside them. They require an oil supply for the bearings they spin on. When run hard they can get red hot. If the engine gets shut off while the turbo is hot ( Just recently provided boost ) The oil supply stops that cools the bearings. The oil on a red hot turbo then burns onto the parts seizing them up.

Turbo owners let them cool off at idle for at least 30 seconds every time you park before turning off the engine.
I tend to agree, but I think you have to add that engines with turbo's have to run at a lower compression all the time in order to withstand the cylinder packing from the turbo when in use, which makes them less efficient ALL the time than a n/a engine. But you can get away with a smaller engine and still get the job done, so there is a balance, as with all things.
This 3 cyl engine might be the newest design on the block, but we still are not talkin' some high revin' big money performance engine here. It's performance is in fuel efficiency, not horse power. It's a push-rod motor, designed to be cheap to build and they probably want to reduce the rotating mass for efficiency. That means not a lot of extra strength in the moving components. So feel free to turbo-charge, super-charge, or nitrus boost all you want, but I won't be messing with that.
On the other hand, the new Dodge Dart has that very interesting 1.4L twin-turbo motor in it which WOULD be a fun toy to play with. If I were of the mindset to want a sportier version of the Elio, I might look at the possibility of getting one of THOSE into it.
 

Dustoff

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I tend to agree, but I think you have to add that engines with turbo's have to run at a lower compression all the time in order to withstand the cylinder packing from the turbo when in use, which makes them less efficient ALL the time than a n/a engine. But you can get away with a smaller engine and still get the job done, so there is a balance, as with all things.
This 3 cyl engine might be the newest design on the block, but we still are not talkin' some high revin' big money performance engine here. It's performance is in fuel efficiency, not horse power. It's a push-rod motor, designed to be cheap to build and they probably want to reduce the rotating mass for efficiency. That means not a lot of extra strength in the moving components. So feel free to turbo-charge, super-charge, or nitrus boost all you want, but I won't be messing with that.
On the other hand, the new Dodge Dart has that very interesting 1.4L twin-turbo motor in it which WOULD be a fun toy to play with. If I were of the mindset to want a sportier version of the Elio, I might look at the possibility of getting one of THOSE into it.

I believe it's an overhead cam design and does not use pushrods.
 

carzes

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I believe it's an overhead cam design and does not use pushrods.
I think you're probably right. I must have been remembering an older post I read somewhere. There was a mention of using a timing chain instead of a belt on the new design. Belts would only be used on overhead cams. Then again they do say they're using a chain instead, which COULD be a little verbal slight of hand for pushrod, but I would hope not. I just can't find anything that actually says so, and I can't get much conclusively from the drawings that are available.
 

Snick

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I tend to agree, but I think you have to add that engines with turbo's have to run at a lower compression all the time in order to withstand the cylinder packing from the turbo when in use, which makes them less efficient ALL the time than a n/a engine. But you can get away with a smaller engine and still get the job done, so there is a balance, as with all things.
This 3 cyl engine might be the newest design on the block, but we still are not talkin' some high revin' big money performance engine here. It's performance is in fuel efficiency, not horse power. It's a push-rod motor, designed to be cheap to build and they probably want to reduce the rotating mass for efficiency. That means not a lot of extra strength in the moving components. So feel free to turbo-charge, super-charge, or nitrus boost all you want, but I won't be messing with that.
On the other hand, the new Dodge Dart has that very interesting 1.4L twin-turbo motor in it which WOULD be a fun toy to play with. If I were of the mindset to want a sportier version of the Elio, I might look at the possibility of getting one of THOSE into it.

Please point out where the pushrods in this engine might be. Every CAD image I've seen shows it as SOHC design. I'd personally be fine with pushrod actuated valves for this application, but hadn't seen that yet. Where have you seen it?
 

CrimsonEclipse

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OCH for simplicity. Chain for durability.

The older problems of the turbo charger gunking up with oil aren't much of a factor anymore.

As stated by Carzes, adding any supercharging would add complexity and require a significant redesign.

If you want to combine a supercharger and main some semblance of simplicity, why not an electrical powered supercharger?

I fully expect someone to install a highly modified 4 banger and making a really elaborate suicide machine.
 

carzes

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Please point out where the pushrods in this engine might be. Every CAD image I've seen shows it as SOHC design. I'd personally be fine with pushrod actuated valves for this application, but hadn't seen that yet. Where have you seen it?
 

carzes

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Please point out where the pushrods in this engine might be. Every CAD image I've seen shows it as SOHC design. I'd personally be fine with pushrod actuated valves for this application, but hadn't seen that yet. Where have you seen it?
All I've seen are the pics from google, and I can't tell much from them. If you have some decent pics you can probably see better. An overhead cam should give it the ability to build power into the higher rpm band, all else being equal. That might give it a little more potential. Still not sure how much stress I'd throw at it.
 

ICret

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When I saw the car in Columbus, I over heard an Elio rep. tell someone that a turbo is not being considered. However, they did say that if they were to boost engine performance, a supercharger would be the best way to go. No commitment was made that it is going to happen, it may have been nothing more than a comment or personal opinion.
 
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