Function & Cost Of Amt Vs Manual: Interesting...

[Elio Amazed]

Function & Cost of AMT vs Manual: Interesting...

I did some reading. It sounds like the additional electro-hydraulic control should cost considerably more, but read on.
I think EM did explain how you can manually shift (no foot pedal) the AMT with the stick in some of their information.
I'm pretty sure it was the usual "+ M -" configuration. Let me know if I've got this right. I think I like the concept.

Using the picture below as an example, to manually shift the vehicle, you place the shifter in "M" instead of "D".
To shift up a gear you move the shifter down to bump "+" and to shift down a gear, you move the shifter up to bump "-".
The shifter returns to "M" via spring tension when you let go, instead of remaining in "+" or "-".

I was set on the "standard" manual configuration but now I'm going to have to give it more thought.

More stuff to break and possibly more expensive to fix out of warranty, but jeez that'd be nice.

Below is a link to a video about a 5 speed AMT in action in a Maruti Suzuki Celerio VXI. The video has got me thinking.
@ 1:45 in the video, the reviewer says, "The automated manual transmission in the Celerio is identical to it's 5-speed counterpart."
"The only difference being the absence of a clutch and the shifts taking place through an electro-hydraulic unit mounted on top of the gearbox."

"AND THAT IS WHAT KEEPS COSTS DOWN." Hmmm.

The next video at that link says, "The auto (tranny) will only be available on the base two models."
In fact, the upgrade models come standard with the "identical" transmission in the non-auto 5-speed manual configuration.
This all sounds like, for the Celerio, the 'manual only' transmission configuration is MORE EXPENSIVE than the AMT!
Now just what is up with that?

With the manual shifting option on the AMT, I can't see any legitimate reason to want, or even offer, a 5-speed 'manual only' version.

Also, wouldn't installing only one transmission system cut costs even further for EM?
Maybe that's what EM's statement about only one transmission being available in the Elio actually meant.

The embed code produced an error, so click here for the link to the video(s).

 

[Ty]

Function & Cost of AMT vs Manual: Interesting...

I did some reading. It sounds like the additional electro-hydraulic control should cost considerably more, but read on.
I think EM did explain how you can manually shift (no foot pedal) the AMT with the stick in some of their information.
I'm pretty sure it was the usual "+ M -" configuration. Let me know if I've got this right. I think I like the concept.

Using the picture below as an example, to manually shift the vehicle, you place the shifter in "M" instead of "D".
To shift up a gear you move the shifter down to bump "+" and to shift down a gear, you move the shifter up to bump "-".
The shifter returns to "M" via spring tension when you let go, instead of remaining in "+" or "-".

View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5920

I was set on the "standard" manual configuration but now I'm going to have to give it more thought.

More stuff to break and possibly more expensive to fix out of warranty, but jeez that'd be nice.

Below is a link to a video about a 5 speed AMT in action in a Maruti Suzuki Celerio VXI. The video has got me thinking.
@ 1:45 in the video, the reviewer says, "The automated manual transmission in the Celerio is identical to it's 5-speed counterpart."
"The only difference being the absence of a clutch and the shifts taking place through an electro-hydraulic unit mounted on top of the gearbox."

"AND THAT IS WHAT KEEPS COSTS DOWN." Hmmm.

The next video at that link says, "The auto (tranny) will only be available on the base two models."
In fact, the upgrade models come standard with the "identical" transmission in the non-auto 5-speed manual configuration.
This all sounds like, for the Celerio, the 'manual only' transmission configuration is MORE EXPENSIVE than the AMT!
Now just what is up with that?

The embed code produced an error, so click here for the link to the video(s).

You have the basis of operation right on the money. There almost isn't a way that the AMT is less expensive than the nearly identical manual transmission. I suspect the difference in price is something else with the Celerio. The manual transmission wouldn't have the set of servos to change gears, the computer, nor the software to control that. The manual, instead, would have a cable and a clutch pedal... and your noggin and hand. A stamped steel clutch pedal and simple cable will be much less expensive... maybe not a ton cheaper but still.

 

[Elio Amazed]

You have the basis of operation right on the money. There almost isn't a way that the AMT is less expensive than the nearly identical manual transmission. I suspect the difference in price is something else with the Celerio. The manual transmission wouldn't have the set of servos to change gears, the computer, nor the software to control that. The manual, instead, would have a cable and a clutch pedal... and your noggin and hand. A stamped steel clutch pedal and simple cable will be much less expensive... maybe not a ton cheaper but still.

Yeah... like I said... that's what I thought too, until I saw these videos.
The only thing you left out was the linkage from the stick which, again, shouldn't cost much.
Y'know, things do become astoundingly cheap when they become standard fare and they're mass produced.

I'm going to look into it when I get more time.

 

[Johnny Acree]

Function & Cost of AMT vs Manual: Interesting...

I did some reading. It sounds like the additional electro-hydraulic control should cost considerably more, but read on.
I think EM did explain how you can manually shift (no foot pedal) the AMT with the stick in some of their information.
I'm pretty sure it was the usual "+ M -" configuration. Let me know if I've got this right. I think I like the concept.

Using the picture below as an example, to manually shift the vehicle, you place the shifter in "M" instead of "D".
To shift up a gear you move the shifter down to bump "+" and to shift down a gear, you move the shifter up to bump "-".
The shifter returns to "M" via spring tension when you let go, instead of remaining in "+" or "-".

View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5921 View attachment 5920

I was set on the "standard" manual configuration but now I'm going to have to give it more thought.

More stuff to break and possibly more expensive to fix out of warranty, but jeez that'd be nice.

Below is a link to a video about a 5 speed AMT in action in a Maruti Suzuki Celerio VXI. The video has got me thinking.
@ 1:45 in the video, the reviewer says, "The automated manual transmission in the Celerio is identical to it's 5-speed counterpart."
"The only difference being the absence of a clutch and the shifts taking place through an electro-hydraulic unit mounted on top of the gearbox."

"AND THAT IS WHAT KEEPS COSTS DOWN." Hmmm.

The next video at that link says, "The auto (tranny) will only be available on the base two models."
In fact, the upgrade models come standard with the "identical" transmission in the non-auto 5-speed manual configuration.
This all sounds like, for the Celerio, the 'manual only' transmission configuration is MORE EXPENSIVE than the AMT!
Now just what is up with that?

With the manual shifting option on the AMT, I can't see any legitimate reason to want, or even offer, a 5-speed 'manual only' version.

Also, wouldn't installing only one transmission system cut costs even further for EM?
Maybe that's what EM's statement about only one transmission being available in the Elio actually meant.

The embed code produced an error, so click here for the link to the video(s).

I was told, that was the reason the smart only came with the AMT. They also say that the manual controls , (shifter, clutch pedal), actually cost more than the electronic counter parts! On the basic smart you didn't get paddle shifters, but on the upgrade smart you did.

 

[Rickb]

I was told, that was the reason the smart only came with the AMT. They also say that the manual controls , (shifter, clutch pedal), actually cost more than the electronic counter parts! On the basic smart you didn't get paddle shifters, but on the upgrade smart you did.

Interesting info on the Smart's AMT. I had no idea there was no manual option. Seems it could be more economical to build the Elio with the AMT only.

 

[WilliamH]

Given the choice between manual and automatic, I'll still take manual any day.
Just a personal thing. I don't see much traffic where I live so automatic is not a big deal.

 

[skygazer6033]

Elio has said all along that the standard transmission would be a manual transmission and that the upgrade would be the Automated Manual Transmission (call Multimode Manual Transmission in the latest description) for an additional $800 to $1000. The word "Manual" in all of the descriptions seems to cause some confusion. The word manual is used to distinguish between an automatically shifted purely mechanical transmission and a hydromechanical automatic transmission (with a torque converter, bands, clutches, hydraulic pumps etc.) Hydromechanical transmission was never considered for the Elio due to cost, weight, and inefficientcy.

 

[Ty]

You know what I just thought about? (I hate when people start out with a question I can't possibly know the answer to) Let me start over.

Elio just stated that the P5 will have the new Elio motor and (a very specific) transmission. They KNOW which transmission it is going to get. Have they mentioned which one it is yet? That would give us all something to look at. It would be a kick to have them come out and say that the AMT is going to be a lot less expensive upgrade over the MT... If the AMT gets better gas mileage AND lets me shift myself... I'll have to try it out before making the decision.

 

[skygazer6033]

Ty --- The only hint I've seen is the reference to "Multimode Manual" Aisin. This is wording Toyota uses for their 5 speed AMT as used on Corolla, Yaris and other compacts and subcompacts.

 

[Rickb]

Given the choice between manual and automatic, I'll still take manual any day.
Just a personal thing. I don't see much traffic where I live so automatic is not a big deal.

I preferred a manual too, in my youth. Lose the use of an arm/leg, for whatever the reason, and you suddenly can't drive it. Also, a pain when driving in stop and go traffic, so the AMT seems more functional as I age on the go. Hey, and better gas mileage too.