Space In The Hood

[Grumpy Cat]

I've never owned a car that had ventilation for the rear occupants.

 

[TheAsterisk!]

Doubt a slight increase in width would affect mileage if frontal area was the SAME...

No. Frontal area necessarily increases with a width increase, assuming all other dimensions remain the same. There is more surface area there, visible from the front-view. That's a matter of strict definition.

Any effect of this on mileage would relate to weight (potentially more material used, depends on implementation) and/or cd/cda (contouring or other aerodynamics), but that doesn't change that the frontal area would increase.

It's around somewhere, it being said RedDot due to the narrow body width is going to have a rough time in the under dash area, and finding space to route HVAC venting to REAR passenger.

Just do like with other compact, economy cars: no separate vents for the rear. Let it waft on back from the front half of the cabin. If your passenger whines too much, point the vents at the ceiling, and let it follow the curve back (easier without a sunroof). That's worked fine for me for several years, now, and the Elio is ostensibly intended for primarily a single-occupancy market, anyway, even if it's capable of carrying two. Anybody that wanted to catch a ride in the back of my Civic, wants to ride in back in the ZX3, or who may want to get in the back in my Elio if I get one can suck it up and deal with that situation, or else find another way 'round. No need to overengineer cabin climate control in such a low-cost spec'd vehicle, especially when most base economy vehicles don't dream of such, anyway.

Potentially upping the projected cost and price, and lessening the Elio's likely appeal to budget and first-time customers, to this end, would not be a wise engineering compromise, from my perspective.

Remember, this car isn't just meant for early-adopter enthusiasts, though that accounts for many of the initial orders and membership of this forum, I'm sure. I am- and many others may be- looking at this thing as my first new vehicle. My frame of reference for cars is comprised of heavily-used cars with long-failed AC and perpetually slipping window regulators, dying catalytic converters, radiator issues, and odometers that make passengers ask how far we plan to drive out of town before they'll close the door and commit. My interest in the Elio has far less to do with a laundry list of creature comforts or lifestyle options, and far more to do with a limited budget and a long-since spent tolerance for crappy used cars (always about 20% overpriced in my market relative to most others, by the way). That, and I admittedly really like little cars.

I may as well worry about whether or not the car has launch control, for all that dedicated rear-cab vents would matter to me.

 

[Build it RIGHT!]

Build it Right! said, "Additionally I've read that Reddit,HVAC contractor isn't happy/ is having problems designing HVAC system due to lack of space."

Link please.

I'd have to search thru hundreds of links to find the info.
Q: How many ELIO's have been built with HVAC system?
Q: Did P5 have a working HVAC system?

The problem I see is that a certain amount of space is needed more so than a regular HVAC system to get a proper amount of air to REAR passenger due to tandem seating arrangement.

 

[Build it RIGHT!]

The "cockpit" is of min. area, why worry about ducting AC air to the rear passenger.
Normal convection? or rather air flow should work.

Remind me when I pick you up that you're sitting in the back seat.

 

[Build it RIGHT!]

No. Frontal area necessarily increases with a width increase, assuming all other dimensions remain the same. There is more surface area there, visible from the front-view. That's a matter of strict definition.

Any effect of this on mileage would relate to weight (potentially more material used, depends on implementation) and/or cd/cda (contouring or other aerodynamics), but that doesn't change that the frontal area would increase.


Just do like with other compact, economy cars: no separate vents for the rear. Let it waft on back from the front half of the cabin. If your passenger whines too much, point the vents at the ceiling, and let it follow the curve back (easier without a sunroof). That's worked fine for me for several years, now, and the Elio is ostensibly intended for primarily a single-occupancy market, anyway, even if it's capable of carrying two. Anybody that wanted to catch a ride in the back of my Civic, wants to ride in back in the ZX3, or who may want to get in the back in my Elio if I get one can suck it up and deal with that situation, or else find another way 'round. No need to overengineer cabin climate control in such a low-cost spec'd vehicle, especially when most base economy vehicles don't dream of such, anyway.

Potentially upping the projected cost and price, and lessening the Elio's likely appeal to budget and first-time customers, to this end, would not be a wise engineering compromise, from my perspective.

Remember, this car isn't just meant for early-adopter enthusiasts, though that accounts for many of the initial orders and membership of this forum, I'm sure. I am- and many others may be- looking at this thing as my first new vehicle. My frame of reference for cars is comprised of heavily-used cars with long-failed AC and perpetually slipping window regulators, dying catalytic converters, radiator issues, and odometers that make passengers ask how far we plan to drive out of town before they'll close the door and commit. My interest in the Elio has far less to do with a laundry list of creature comforts or lifestyle options, and far more to do with a limited budget and a long-since spent tolerance for crappy used cars (always about 20% overpriced in my market relative to most others, by the way). That, and I admittedly really like little cars.

I may as well worry about whether or not the car has launch control, for all that dedicated rear-cab vents would matter to me.

I hope the guys at RedDot don't have the same mindset!!!
If so the ELIO, as it relates to the comfort of the rear passenger is going to get BAD reviews.
It's bad enough enough rear passenger is TRAPPED behind the driver and can't see the roadway, in a space that has NO EXIT door...
(If driver is incapacitated in a wreck, rear passenger is TRAPPED big time...)

So far as cost, ELIO should already planned for such due to tandem seating arrangement, and reasons noted above.

Regardless to the delays it might cause HVAC system should have been fleshed out and tested before gearing up to make the chassis in steel.

Hope RedDot can get it worked out.

 

[floydv]

EM should add a hump to the left side of the Elio to match the right side hump that hides the exhaust. They can then use the left side hump to route an HVAC conduit to bring ventilation to the passenger.

 

[Coss]

The pic I posted was from the E-1A when it was revealed recently. You can tell from the white paint job.

My mistake, I went back and saw the white on the fender; but It's not really all that much different from the P5 under the hood. The air cleaner on the P5 was black, and the pluming and wiring were neater in the E1A than the P5 but other then that, it's not very different.

 

[Build it RIGHT!]

EM should add a hump to the left side of the Elio to match the right side hump that hides the exhaust. They can then use the left side hump to route an HVAC conduit to bring ventilation to the passenger.

Yep, was thinking the same thing.
PS, have you mentioned this before?
I didn't mention it as I'd get lambasted for it adding extra cost, weight, drag, decrease in mpg,etc.

BTW: Where did this 84mpg figure come from?
From real world testing?, or just wishful thinking?

 

[Coss]

I've never owned a car that had ventilation for the rear occupants.

Most new cars have vents under the front seats to pipe HVAC to the rear seat passengers. I even have these in my 2008 Dodge Nitro, and had them in my 99 Monte Carlo.
The Luxury cars will even have a separate set of controls for the HVAC to the back seat passengers.

I hope the guys at RedDot don't have the same mindset!!!
If so the ELIO, as it relates to the comfort of the rear passenger is going to get BAD reviews.
It's bad enough enough rear passenger is TRAPPED behind the driver and can't see the roadway, in a space that has NO EXIT door...
(If driver is incapacitated in a wreck, rear passenger is TRAPPED big time...)

So far as cost, ELIO should already planned for such due to tandem seating arrangement, and reasons noted above.

Regardless to the delays it might cause HVAC system should have been fleshed out and tested before gearing up to make the chassis in steel.

Hope RedDot can get it worked out.

There is a thread on the site where we covered this topic in detail.
Including an idea to mount a headrest monitor in the driver seat and have the option to connect it to the forward view camera.
Getting out was covered with a number of possibilities.

 

[booboo]

I hope the guys at RedDot don't have the same mindset!!!
If so the ELIO, as it relates to the comfort of the rear passenger is going to get BAD reviews.
It's bad enough enough rear passenger is TRAPPED behind the driver and can't see the roadway, in a space that has NO EXIT door...
(If driver is incapacitated in a wreck, rear passenger is TRAPPED big time...)

So far as cost, ELIO should already planned for such due to tandem seating arrangement, and reasons noted above.

Regardless to the delays it might cause HVAC system should have been fleshed out and tested before gearing up to make the chassis in steel.

Hope RedDot can get it worked out.

All two door cars are like that. I think, by design the seat release is accessible to the back seat people for that reason.
As far as the comfort of an Elio passenger is concerned. I think they may be thinking about that too.
" “The testing and validation process is giving our engineering team feedback on our designs that will help us make subtle changes to reach our safety, fuel efficiency, cost and performance targets,” said Paul Elio, founder and CEO of Elio Motors. “Revolutionizing the transportation industry with a unique, disruptive vehicle requires hundreds, maybe even thousands of small, but crucial decisions and the E-Series testing and validation process will help get us there.”"