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Mpg Matters, Regardless Of Gas Prices (original Elio Concept Reminder)

JCar

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Arthur Berman: Why Today's Shale Era Is The Retirement Party For Oil Production A leading geologist delivers the hard facts

http://www.peakprosperity.com/podca...ays-shale-era-retirement-party-oil-production

Reality check for people caught up in U.S. shale hype, who think oil is somehow more "plentiful" just because it's cheaper at the moment, and that a high MPG car is suddenly not necessary. It's actually more necessary every day when you realize that recoverable U.S. shale oil only amounts to 2 or 3 years of U.S. supply (if it was the only oil we could burn).

If you look back on Paul Elio's original vision for this car, gas mileage was the main focus, and I see people forgetting that just because OPEC has flooded the market to starve U.S. fracking, rendering prices artificially low. Sooner or later, and probably without much warning, that tactic will stop working and we'll see prices rise again. But we shouldn't waste oil at any price. I wish more people would keep that in mind instead of drifting back into American denial mode.
 

Gas-Powered Awesome

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If you want to reduce gasoline consumption the best thing you could do would be ban high-MPG cars. The Elio will increase gasoline consumption. Look up Jevon's Paradox. Cars are more efficient than ever, but we use more oil than ever: Paradox.
 

Jeff Porter

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If you want to reduce gasoline consumption the best thing you could do would be ban high-MPG cars. The Elio will increase gasoline consumption. Look up Jevon's Paradox. Cars are more efficient than ever, but we use more oil than ever: Paradox.

Interesting point of view. I think 98 of 100 people would disagree.

Americans are addicted to their car. I know I am. Something much more painful than high gas prices will be needed to keep people from driving as much as they do now. Whether a vehicle gets 20 MPG or 40 MPG, people are still gonna drive the same amount. :faint2:
 

Darrellh

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If you want to reduce gasoline consumption the best thing you could do would be ban high-MPG cars. The Elio will increase gasoline consumption. Look up Jevon's Paradox. Cars are more efficient than ever, but we use more oil than ever: Paradox.
The Elio will be an "and" vehicle for me as I plan to keep my 4x4 SUV for severe winter travel, off road travel, and hauling my utility trailer. However, I plan on making my Elio as fuel efficient as possible and use it as often as I can.
 

Rickb

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If you want to reduce gasoline consumption the best thing you could do would be ban high-MPG cars. The Elio will increase gasoline consumption. Look up Jevon's Paradox. Cars are more efficient than ever, but we use more oil than ever: Paradox.
........perhaps the only solution is Electric-Powered Awesome. lol I kid Gas-Powered Awesome.
 

Gas-Powered Awesome

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Interesting point of view. I think 98 of 100 people would disagree.

Americans are addicted to their car. I know I am. Something much more painful than high gas prices will be needed to keep people from driving as much as they do now. Whether a vehicle gets 20 MPG or 40 MPG, people are still gonna drive the same amount.

The facts don't change just because people don't agree with them. Earth goes around the Sun, for example. ;)

"People still driving the same amount" is microeconomics. Jevon's Paradox is macroeconomics. More people can drive 20-40 miles a day when it costs less to do so. Elio's own goals include giving mobility to more people who couldn't afford it before. That's more total gas consumption.
 

satx

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Once the battery breakthrough(s) arrive (high power density, faster charging, longer life, lower weight, cheaper material, $100/KwH and less), the demand for EVs will outstrip supply of EVs and probably charging electricity.

just one very promising research project:

Two years of tests confound two decades of assumptions on lithium-ion battery design
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-years-confound-decades-assumptions-lithium-ion.html

The EV revolution will be starting probably with if not before Elio volume production (the guy still needs $200M+ without yielding control of EM, probably 2017 production, if ever).

Elio's dominant features are enclosed transportation and (announced) price target, not mpg. People won't be using Elio's for gas-consuming high mileage, but as runabouts in urban, suburban areas. Elio's huge investment and delay in a new motor will be negated by an Elio, or probably many other, using off-the-shelf electric hub motors.
 

Ty

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J
If you want to reduce gasoline consumption the best thing you could do would be ban high-MPG cars. The Elio will increase gasoline consumption. Look up Jevon's Paradox. Cars are more efficient than ever, but we use more oil than ever: Paradox.
Jevon's Paradox only works in a limited range though.

Extreme example:
I drive 12,000 miles a year. If suddenly I got double my mileage, I might be encouraged to take another trip or two a year adding 2-4K to my total per year. However, that isn't very likely because I only have so much vacation. I may decide to live further away from work but that isn't very likely because time is my limiting factor there, not cost. How much will my personal travel be affected if I drove a super duper solar car? Not much. Time is my limiting factor.

Now, sure, if all of a sudden mileage was unlimited, the cost of goods would drop and I might consume more which will require more transportation but only to a point.

In my case, the Elio will drop consumption A LOT. I now buy 30 gallons of diesel getting to and from work. However, for my Elio, I'll be consuming 5.7 gallons. I'll save the United States 24.3 gallons of fuel per week by driving an Elio. You know what? My commute won't increase in mileage and I won't suddenly decide to drive the long way to work every day in order to use more fuel. The Elio will lower my consumption A LOT.

Getting rid of High MPG cars will get lower the amount of leisure travel, limit money left over for purchases which will affect the economy,
Once the battery breakthrough(s) arrive (high power density, faster charging, longer life, lower weight, cheaper material, $100/KwH and less), the demand for EVs will outstrip supply of EVs and probably charging electricity.

just one very promising research project:

Two years of tests confound two decades of assumptions on lithium-ion battery design
http://phys.org/news/2015-10-years-confound-decades-assumptions-lithium-ion.html

The EV revolution will be starting probably with if not before Elio volume production (the guy still needs $200M+ without yielding control of EM, probably 2017 production, if ever).

Elio's dominant features are enclosed transportation and (announced) price target, not mpg. People won't be using Elio's for gas-consuming high mileage, but as runabouts in urban, suburban areas. Elio's huge investment and delay in a new motor will be negated by an Elio, or probably many other, using off-the-shelf electric hub motors.
Actually, I'll be using mine as a commuter car... 25 miles on highway each way. Saying people won't use he Elio as such is incorrect. In fact, 100% if my urban running about will NOT be done in my Elio as someone is always with me and usually 2-4 other people (mostly small people related to me).
 

Hotscoots

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67% of all US electricity generation comes from fossil fuel burning : Add to that the current challenges in recycling lithium batteries , and only casual environmentalists yearn for electric cars . We may be a decade away from Hydro/Electric vehicles which would make infinitely more sense than running out and buying a rolling toaster.

Coal = 39%
Natural gas = 27%
Nuclear = 19%
Hydropower = 6%
Other renewables = 7%
 
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