The E-series Build.

Coss · May 23, 2016

Oh NO!! I've spent hours and hours going through the mountain of "stuff" they had there. Bin after bin of drill bits, all still good (I think I still have like 30 of them left) office gear (6 of the filing cabinets in my office now, are from there) and bizarre stuff; I pick up so many items that I had no idea what they were for originally and re-purposed them.
Ahhh good times, good times.....

Florida Guy · May 23, 2016

pistonboy said:
View attachment 9432

I was very happy and excited before when I saw that the Elio was going to have a tubular steel roll cage. They did computer crash simulations with the tubular steel cage protecting the occupants. It appears from the last few pictures of the E-series that hey are now using stamped steel instead of what was modeled in the simulations. Does anyone know how the 2 types of frame compare in occupant protection? To me this is a big deal that seems to have flown under the radar. Is this something we should be concerned with since one of the stated goals has always been to produce a 5 star safety rated car? Does it appear that they are cheapening out in the design now that we are getting closer to production? Does anyone know for sure if they have redone the crash simulations with stamped steel and have had similar results?

AriLea · May 23, 2016

Florida Guy said:
I was very happy and excited before when I saw that the Elio was going to have a tubular steel roll cage. They did computer crash simulations with the tubular steel cage protecting the occupants. It appears from the last few pictures of the E-series that hey are now using stamped steel instead of what was modeled in the simulations. Does anyone know how the 2 types of frame compare in occupant protection? To me this is a big deal that seems to have flown under the radar. Is this something we should be concerned with since one of the stated goals has always been to produce a 5 star safety rated car? Does it appear that they are cheapening out in the design now that we are getting closer to production? Does anyone know for sure if they have redone the crash simulations with stamped steel and have had similar results?

I would expect a stamped structure that re-creates a tube geometry (a full tube) to be as good as or better than a frame when given the same tube diameters.
A stamping would typically add flanges to the 'tube'. Having said that, I don't know the full tubes are being recreated exactly the same.

However, since it's a process involving some software, they would have already repeated the process with the stampings in place. It's setting up the process and method of analysis that takes the most effort. I'm sure they didn't want to go into that much detail for the public, since everything said costs them a lot of talk-time.
Generally speaking, for the crash tests I saw, just the beam-strength and a related deformity direction (for each structure) were the only attributes of each tube that affected the overall results. So long as the replacement segments are the same or stronger and with about the same relative strength to the rest of the structure, they will meet or beat the prior result.

But as I say, re-running the simulation again with an updated solids model is a trivial matter. So I'm expecting they did that. In fact I would have expected they did a comparative study early on while deciding what frame designs and manufacturing processes to use.
In any case classic automotive engineering has standard relative expectations for this type of change to a design.

Sethodine · May 23, 2016

Florida Guy said:
I was very happy and excited before when I saw that the Elio was going to have a tubular steel roll cage. They did computer crash simulations with the tubular steel cage protecting the occupants. It appears from the last few pictures of the E-series that hey are now using stamped steel instead of what was modeled in the simulations. Does anyone know how the 2 types of frame compare in occupant protection? To me this is a big deal that seems to have flown under the radar. Is this something we should be concerned with since one of the stated goals has always been to produce a 5 star safety rated car? Does it appear that they are cheapening out in the design now that we are getting closer to production? Does anyone know for sure if they have redone the crash simulations with stamped steel and have had similar results?

Stamped steel can meet or exceed the ability of tubular steel--it all depends on the design.
From Elio's financials, we know they've contracted with a firm to do the computer simulations, but the purpose of these Engineering vehicles is primarily to crash them and get REAL results. So we'll find out just how well the simulations hold up. Since (we suspect) the changes to the frame has largely been due to Roush joining the team, I'm not worried

slinches · May 23, 2016

AriLea said:
re-running the simulation again with an updated solids model is a trivial matter.

I think you have a different definition of "trivial" than I have. These sort of models take months to mesh and assemble initially and even though working from an existing model helps, it'll still take weeks of engineering effort to modify the model.

I agree with the rest of your statement, though.

ehwatt · May 23, 2016

Ty said:
I think he meant "it was said a while back that the panels would be glued on like the Corvette" which is what Paul said. He didn't mean the process started with the Corvette. Man, I remember wanting one of those Fieros when they came out. I was but a poor wee lass.

Hey Ty, I knew a guy with a speech impediment and he would say "weel" for the word "real " too. [Grinning face]

Truett Collins · May 23, 2016

Just saw this and found it interesting....

‎Deborah McAteer‎toElio Motors Owners Association
21 mins ·
This was posted on another site by Rick Deckard; I thought some of you in this group might be interested too.

News clip from the Shareholders meeting:
86.9% of the shareholders sent in proxy or was present(17 holders). I am sure the notes from the meeting will be posted soon. Motions for 6 directors to the Company's Board of Directors passed. This was unanimous.
The second order of business was to adopt the 2016 incentive and Nonstatutory Stock Option Plan (See 2016 Stop ...Option Plan) this was also passed. (16040shares opposed)

Other things talked about: The 3rd Chassis is due to be completed this week
Paul and team feels the ePlus system is going to be one of the biggest game changer out there. They are using info gathered on this even in Beta to see trends of products people are checking out. As time goes by there will be more accessories, New Technologies and multiple sources will be added. The customer will ultimately determine what it produced and what stays around. Part of the requirements are to have a liberal return policy and attempting to keep new products backwards compatible as long as necessary. As far as electronics are concerned the overall load on the system is taken into consideration. If one loads things up too much the system will indicate what things to choose from so that one doesn't overload the vehicle. The ePlus is seen as a retailer attitude with a strong competitive atmosphere. Let the market find the cream the rest will sort itself out. Plus the suppliers like this as well as the metrics - it helps them to sell product to other manufactures. And this will allow new product to be migrated into a vehicle as things show up that one just wants to have added at any point in time. You pick whose part Odessa puts it on (after the initial sale you put it on yourself or have Pepboys do it - this items can be selected online, at an Elio Store or at Pepboys. This presents itself as a revenue steam instead of a simple point in time sale.
Several Insurance companies asked to met Elio at a Insurance Company Test track and examined the autocycle. Their reviews were positive and it was thought (with this limited prototype data) that this would basically be a Car Insurance minus instead of a Motorcycle plus situation. Mostly due to car like qualities and safety with a low damage rate to others and low cost for replacement.

BiloxiGeek · May 23, 2016

Sure would like to know exactly which insurance companies were involved.

Ekh · May 23, 2016

Ty said:
I think he meant "it was said a while back that the panels would be glued on like the Corvette" which is what Paul said. He didn't mean the process started with the Corvette. Man, I remember wanting one of those Fieros when they came out. I was but a poor wee lass.

They were silly, with their long and useless snouts. When did you go trans-gender?

Ekh · May 23, 2016

Truett Collins said:
Just saw this and found it interesting....

‎Deborah McAteer‎toElio Motors Owners Association
21 mins ·
This was posted on another site by Rick Deckard; I thought some of you in this group might be interested too.

News clip from the Shareholders meeting:
86.9% of the shareholders sent in proxy or was present(17 holders). I am sure the notes from the meeting will be posted soon. Motions for 6 directors to the Company's Board of Directors passed. This was unanimous.
The second order of business was to adopt the 2016 incentive and Nonstatutory Stock Option Plan (See 2016 Stop ...Option Plan) this was also passed. (16040shares opposed)

Other things talked about: The 3rd Chassis is due to be completed this week
Paul and team feels the ePlus system is going to be one of the biggest game changer out there. They are using info gathered on this even in Beta to see trends of products people are checking out. As time goes by there will be more accessories, New Technologies and multiple sources will be added. The customer will ultimately determine what it produced and what stays around. Part of the requirements are to have a liberal return policy and attempting to keep new products backwards compatible as long as necessary. As far as electronics are concerned the overall load on the system is taken into consideration. If one loads things up too much the system will indicate what things to choose from so that one doesn't overload the vehicle. The ePlus is seen as a retailer attitude with a strong competitive atmosphere. Let the market find the cream the rest will sort itself out. Plus the suppliers like this as well as the metrics - it helps them to sell product to other manufactures. And this will allow new product to be migrated into a vehicle as things show up that one just wants to have added at any point in time. You pick whose part Odessa puts it on (after the initial sale you put it on yourself or have Pepboys do it - this items can be selected online, at an Elio Store or at Pepboys. This presents itself as a revenue steam instead of a simple point in time sale.
Several Insurance companies asked to met Elio at a Insurance Company Test track and examined the autocycle. Their reviews were positive and it was thought (with this limited prototype data) that this would basically be a Car Insurance minus instead of a Motorcycle plus situation. Mostly due to car like qualities and safety with a low damage rate to others and low cost for replacement.

No surprises, but welcome news just the same.

The E-series Build.

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