The Aftermath

DailyLunatic said:

OK, I'm dumb. How can they be fined for manufacturing a motor vehicle, if they have not yet begun manufacturing.

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If they registered with any government agency as a manufacturer including the states, the SEC and the IRS...
(which I think they did all over the country) they cooked their own turkey.
But who's going to listen to me, eh?

Elio Amazed said:

If they registered with any government agency as a manufacturer including the states, the SEC and the IRS...
(which I think they did all over the country) they cooked their own turkey.
But who's going to listen to me, eh?

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It's true that Elio calls itself a "vehicle design and manufacturing company" in its SEC filings:

"Motivated by the belief that America can engineer and build a high quality, reliable, safe, eco-friendly and affordable vehicle for everyone, engineering veteran Paul Elio founded Elio Motors, Inc. in October 2009 as an Arizona corporation. Today, Elio Motors is an American vehicle design and manufacturing company committed to providing safe, affordable and efficient vehicles. Leveraging existing technology, Elio Motors has designed a revolutionary front engine, front-wheel drive, two-seat, gasoline-powered vehicle, with two wheels in the front and one wheel in the rear – the Elio. Its unique design makes the vehicle more aerodynamic with significantly higher gas mileage than standard vehicles.

Elio Motors hopes to make a game-changing impact beyond sales; creating thousands of jobs, reducing dependence on foreign oil, reducing emissions, and favorably affecting the trade deficit by reducing foreign oil purchases, exporting vehicles, and providing a significant return for investors." (Form 10-12b filing, https://www.bamsec.com/filing/121465916012757?cik=1531266).

With that said, the rest of the filing makes it clear that Elio is definitely no closer to manufacturing than the prototype/pre-production phase. Calling yourself a manufacturer doesn't help with the Commission, but it doesn't make it true, either...at least not yet.

floydv said:

It's true that Elio calls itself a "vehicle design and manufacturing company" in its SEC filings:

"Motivated by the belief that America can engineer and build a high quality, reliable, safe, eco-friendly and affordable vehicle for everyone, engineering veteran Paul Elio founded Elio Motors, Inc. in October 2009 as an Arizona corporation. Today, Elio Motors is an American vehicle design and manufacturing company committed to providing safe, affordable and efficient vehicles. Leveraging existing technology, Elio Motors has designed a revolutionary front engine, front-wheel drive, two-seat, gasoline-powered vehicle, with two wheels in the front and one wheel in the rear – the Elio. Its unique design makes the vehicle more aerodynamic with significantly higher gas mileage than standard vehicles.

Elio Motors hopes to make a game-changing impact beyond sales; creating thousands of jobs, reducing dependence on foreign oil, reducing emissions, and favorably affecting the trade deficit by reducing foreign oil purchases, exporting vehicles, and providing a significant return for investors." (Form 10-12b filing, https://www.bamsec.com/filing/121465916012757?cik=1531266).

With that said, the rest of the filing makes it clear that Elio is definitely no closer to manufacturing than the prototype/pre-production phase. Calling yourself a manufacturer doesn't help with the Commission, but it doesn't make it true, either...at least not yet.

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And the court will say that you can't have it both ways.

Perhaps they have only "manufactured" a design and prototypes so far (Not in Louisiana!). Should a license be required for that?

Elio Amazed said:

If they registered with any government agency as a manufacturer including the states, the SEC and the IRS...
(which I think they did all over the country) they cooked their own turkey.
But who's going to listen to me, eh?

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True, Your government at work. I filed for an Employee Identification Number in Dec of 2015. Opened business in Feb 2016. When I filed 2016 taxes, I was fined $4,000 dollars for not filing 2015 business form.. Was not open for business and did not have income. The computer fined me. When I finally got to visit with a flesh and blood, The fine was rescinded.

Frim said:

The computer fined me.

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"Computers are out friend, Computers are our friend, Computers are our friend.".....Repeat as necessary!

Frim said:

True, Your government at work. I filed for an Employee Identification Number in Dec of 2015. Opened business in Feb 2016. When I filed 2016 taxes, I was fined $4,000 dollars for not filing 2015 business form.. Was not open for business and did not have income. The computer fined me. When I finally got to visit with a flesh and blood, The fine was rescinded.

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Should've taken the blue pill...

KenK said:

That fat lady hasn't quite sung just yet (July 31st!), but I believe she's about to take the stage.

Was this simply the case of a niche product that didn't have enough support to materialize? Should or could $140 million have been enough to get a product to market? What role did politics really play? Was there something in the shadows that actively fought against the Elio? What does this say about the next guy's chance at becoming another Ford or Tesla?

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Opinion based on observation of the dog that didn't bark in the night: someone or someones on the ATVM loan board decided they weren't in the loan business. It's obvious from their behavior. No loans to anyone for, what, six years. Stringing Elio along for years. Changing the rules of the game in June 2016, as Elio stated last year, just as they were ready to start. There seems to be an ideological or personal reason not to make loans, even though they are, it says here, in the business of making loans.

Paul Elio is trying hard to arrange funding. In my opinion, it seems no one really wants to loan 230+ mil for a company that is designed to sell at a modest price. Paul Elio told us that, many times. Not in the VC climate we have. So it's sell or die. I once suggested a hail mary let's pay half price campaign - I'd have done it gladly - but I was blasted and the thread locked down. I thought that a bit harsh. Seems I was right.

The project was designed to live through that ATVM loan. It's how Tesla was born. Elio was denied. Something evil happened on that loan board.

I hope he makes it, Paul I mean. He gave everything he had. Maybe he'll find that angel. Bye.

Thomas Malkin said:

The project was designed to live through that ATVM loan. It's how Tesla was born. Elio was denied. Something evil happened on that loan board.

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Not exactly. Tesla had been making cars for 5 years when they got their loan.

From the DOE site (https://energy.gov/lpo/services/atvm-loan-program) - a simple qualifier that Elio doesn't seem to fit:
"In order to be financially eligible for an ATVM loan, an applicant must be financially viable without the receipt of additional federal funding for the proposed project."

Thomas Malkin said:

I once suggested a hail mary let's pay half price campaign - I'd have done it gladly

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What's the half price campaign?

Bookly said:

Not exactly. Tesla had been making cars for 5 years when they got their loan.

From the DOE site (https://energy.gov/lpo/services/atvm-loan-program) - a simple qualifier that Elio doesn't seem to fit:
"In order to be financially eligible for an ATVM loan, an applicant must be financially viable without the receipt of additional federal funding for the proposed project."

There have been just 5 ATVM loans given out since the program began in 2008. All were to companies that fit the above criteria - already operating and making cars.



What's the half price campaign?

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You've interpreted that snippet from the DOE information incorrectly.
We've been over that for what seems like a couple hundred times on this site.
The posts are there if you wish to look them up.