More Comments From Patrick Byrne Regarding Sto’s...(eliocoin)...

ElioWallSteet said:

I respectfully disagree... there are scores of gobal automotive manufacturers that could have an Elio style vehicle fully developed in under a year...

Actually...Elio does not have “the tech”...that was all developed by subcomponent manufacturers...all global automotive manufacturer have access to these companies...very simple process to duplicate an Elio Vehicle...

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Agreed. Any big company could spend a billion and have a 3wheel, $8K, 84MPG vehicle ready to show for the next year auto show.
SO WHY DON'T THEY?

The same reason that Elio can't get financing: There's not enough profit in it. Why do you think that Ford is planning to get out of the car business? (With the excpetion of the Mustang and some Focus-based crossover thingy.) Follow the money: If there was big profit to be made in a sub-10k econobox, do you really think the auto manufacturers would be ignoring the market? Of course they wouldn't. They can make a lot more money going after the market they're already targeting. Elio is tyring to prove that yes, there really is a way to do this, and still make enough profit to make it worthwhile. I hope he's right.

booboo said:

Agreed. Any big company could spend a billion and have a 3wheel, $8K, 84MPG vehicle ready to show for the next year auto show.
SO WHY DON'T THEY?

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They can make more money not doing that. It's not about making money: you can. They can just use their money to make trucks and SUVS, and make more money because the profit on a $40,000 pickup truck is something like 50%? 20 grand? On a small car, they can't jack the markup that high. American auto makers have been making small cars at regulatory gunpoint since the 70s: they are largely off the chain now.

mkiker2089 said:

Tesla would be a good investor, for Elio that is. I fail to really see what Tesla would get from it. I think it's a market they don't want. That said it would be nice for Elio to add Tesla dealers to the supply chain. It would reduce costs to get the car delivered. It won't happen but if you think Elon might bight by all means try.

Elon is rich and really only cares about other rich people buying expensive cars. He has no clue what normal life is like.

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Musk isn't getting rich off of Tesla. He's spent on Tesla. He will someday get REALLY rich off Tesla, but not today.
He wants to electrify the car world. He's all down for cheap electric cars, but he's not interested in that segment at the moment, if ever; the Model 3 is his cheapie. He has to make money, and small cars aren't the place for that. He's following a plan he laid out 10 years ago, and he's reached where it needs to go. He's in a delicate phase where he has to watch that cash flow very carefully while he builds up capacity.

I think Elio would work for Tesla mostly for a couple reasons. One, as he has done with his Boring Company, Musk has recognized he's coming off as a servant of wealth - the Boring company has deemphasized the underground sled for rich cars, and is about moving people and bikes now, a buck a ride. Providing Elio with a tiny bit of capital to get up and running buys him a dimming of that rich-serving image, and it doesn't cost him a minute of sleep because he doesn't have to build the Elio. The other is that he loves jamming a finger in the eye of idiots, and the American car brands have been ragging him for a decade. Slapping out THE $17,000 poor man's electric autocycle would do it. He'd own the auto market from econo to 200+ mph sports car. And it'd make his money back if an Electric Elio bought the motors from Tesla (though, lord, might have to downsize those puppies a bit. MUCH smaller and weaker electric motor).

Business is created to make money. The reason why there arent a ton of investors is because thry don't see the money..

Idk where you live, but bery few ppl I knoe WANT a car like this. Do we NEED a car like this? I think so, but ppl usually buy want they want.

People NEED to eat apples, but many people WANT to eat more expensive doritos. Go to a store and look at how many chip options there are.

Heres a car example. Look at a new Mitsubishi Mirage. Its a simple 3 cylinder car that gets 50mpg. You can buy these new for around $11,000 to 14000. When they first came out they were struggling to sell and you could get them for around $9,000 out the door. They still don't sell a ton of them. Why? There isn't a huge demand.

Mr Malkin - the problem you have is your not looking at it from a business aspect. You're just looking at it through a prizm of what people need. Need and demand are completely different. Demand drives business decisions.

Rob Croson said:

The same reason that Elio can't get financing: There's not enough profit in it. Why do you think that Ford is planning to get out of the car business? (With the excpetion of the Mustang and some Focus-based crossover thingy.) Follow the money: If there was big profit to be made in a sub-10k econobox, do you really think the auto manufacturers would be ignoring the market? Of course they wouldn't. They can make a lot more money going after the market they're already targeting. Elio is tyring to prove that yes, there really is a way to do this, and still make enough profit to make it worthwhile. I hope he's right.

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ok I'll take this one.

As stated in the past, auto manufacturers and their dealers receive 50-85% of their profit from parts and servicing.
A car that doesn't break (Elio or electric) is something that they Just Can't do. No company is going to willingly sacrifice 50-85% of their profit under ANY circumstances.

So what's up with Ford? Killing (most) cars and focusing on only SUV's?
They are planning on a recession and oil crisis.
They plan on going bankrupt and making the tax payers foot the bill of the bailout which will allow them to get cheap loans to pay for the eventual electrification of the fleet. (and possibly cancel contracts with unions and suppliers)

No one is stupid enough to forget the 2008 automotive collapse due to over reliance of profit from SUV's and pickups.
This is a calculated suicide.

CrimsonEclipse said:

As stated in the past, auto manufacturers and their dealers receive 50-85% of their profit from parts and servicing.
A car that doesn't break (Elio or electric) is something that they Just Can't do. No company is going to willingly sacrifice 50-85% of their profit under ANY circumstances.

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I think we really agree on a lot of this. It's all reasons why EM is having a hard time getting funding to build their cheap car.