• Welcome to Elio Owners! Join today, registration is easy!

    You can register using your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account, just click here.

How This Radical Car Missed Its Chance To Change The World - Maybe!

Watashiwah

Elio Addict
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
634
Reaction score
494
Location
DC area
Interesting!!

Difficult, if not impossible, to Depose. Not in Arizona is difficult , being in Canada is practically impossible. Unless she’s willing. Interesting!! I wonder why EM kept such an important detail ‘under wraps’? She wasn’t any old employee, she was a Corporate Officer with public responsibilities. No SEC guidelines would protect this sort of disclosure.
 
Last edited:

RSchneider

Elio Addict
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
2,792
Reaction score
1,912
Location
Hellertown, PA
These same people, and subsequently the companies that bought the intellectual property when they went bankrupt in 2011, made two prototypes with 120 and 100 mile ranges respectively. They tried to compete in the X-prize contest in 2010 and the vehicle overheated after traveling 30 laps of the 50 lap trial. These are the only known Aptera prototypes in existence, but the same people are now telling potential unqualified investors (and please note the red caps in quotation marks):

1 In addition to "ITS 1,000+ MILE BATTERY RANGE", the Aptera "CAN" travel 40+ miles a day on the free power from "ITS INTEGRATED SOLAR PANELS."
2 Gas cars are inefficient and EVs today aren't efficient enough.
3 The Aptera "IS" aerodynamic, lightweight, strong, and fun to drive!
4 By 2022, we expect to realize margins of 35% selling 11,250 units per year.
5 Each Aptera owner could reduce their carbon footprint by over 14,000 pounds of CO2 per year.
6 "IT'S SAFE". The Aptera "HAS" a passenger safety cell stronger than that of any other vehicle on the road today.
7 It's affordable. The Aptera "HAS" only 10 key structural parts "AND USES" less materials and fewer batteries. This means we can build it relatively cheaply.

WAY down the fundraising page, they tell you the funds they are asking you for will be used to build THE FIRST PROTOTYPE. However, the parts of the seven points above that I highlighted, unless I live in an alternate reality, make it sound like there's a fully tested prototype running around a track somewhere getting all these wonderful and fantastical specifications that no-one else has been able to even come remotely close to. To the best of my knowledge, the technology that would be required to achieve those specifications doesn't even exist yet. The bottom line is that the fact that there is no described prototype in existence, other than on paper and in artist renditions, makes the highlighted parts of those seven points complete, and apparently intentional, falsehoods. Physics dictates that something that's non-existent can't HAVE or BE any of the things they are saying it HAS and IS.

Aptera was denied two ATVM loans in 2009. Then these exact same people who are now trying to raise funds for a new Aptera claimed in 2011 that the DOE offered them a $150M low interest loan if Aptera met a requirement of raising a matching amount themselves. The New York Times contacted the DOE which said that it had not committed to loaning the company any money.. To the best of my knowledge, a lot of people lost a good deal of money when these same people took the original Aptera into bankruptcy. And now they use deceptive language right out of the box on their fundraising page, of all places? I'm curious to know how they'll respond to your inquiry. Please let us know.
If you look at their SEC filing, the address for Aptera is a residential house. Not a real business location.

This is all they have done so far:
- Completed several iterations of Computational Fluid Dynamics on our exterior design to refine for the best aerodynamics possible for the Aptera
- Finalized the interior design of the Aptera
- Finished the general mechanical design of the Aptera
- And filed two trademarks and a design patent on our work

This tells me that there are no physical prototypes. So, they cannot make claims unless they have a production ready vehicle that has been certified. Until then, it's all computer simulations and those are fine, but real world testing by and independent party is a requirement before asking people for money and making claims of 1000 miles on a charge and the rest of the specs.

I even found this when it comes to the offering:

"If any answer requiring significant information is materially inaccurate, incomplete or misleading, the Company, it's management and principal shareholders may be liable to investors based on that information."

The research you guys did on Aptera shows that they need to change their wording and stop making claims like they are. This can land them in big trouble and it's an unethical way of raising money if you ask me. Last thing we need is a company operating like this, all show and no go. This investment could be going to a legit business with real working prototypes and a real business location, as opposed to this one.
 

Travelbuzz1

Elio Addict
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Messages
751
Reaction score
675
Location
Sioux Falls, South Dakota
These same people, and subsequently the companies that bought the intellectual property when they went bankrupt in 2011, made two prototypes with 120 and 100 mile ranges respectively. They tried to compete in the X-prize contest in 2010 and the vehicle overheated after traveling 30 laps of the 50 lap trial. These are the only known Aptera prototypes in existence, but the same people are now telling potential unqualified investors (and please note the red caps in quotation marks):

1 In addition to "ITS 1,000+ MILE BATTERY RANGE", the Aptera "CAN" travel 40+ miles a day on the free power from "ITS INTEGRATED SOLAR PANELS."
2 Gas cars are inefficient and EVs today aren't efficient enough.
3 The Aptera "IS" aerodynamic, lightweight, strong, and fun to drive!
4 By 2022, we expect to realize margins of 35% selling 11,250 units per year.
5 Each Aptera owner could reduce their carbon footprint by over 14,000 pounds of CO2 per year.
6 "IT'S SAFE". The Aptera "HAS" a passenger safety cell stronger than that of any other vehicle on the road today.
7 It's affordable. The Aptera "HAS" only 10 key structural parts "AND USES" less materials and fewer batteries. This means we can build it relatively cheaply.

WAY down the fundraising page, they tell you the funds they are asking you for will be used to build THE FIRST PROTOTYPE. However, the parts of the seven points above that I highlighted, unless I live in an alternate reality, make it sound like there's a fully tested prototype running around a track somewhere getting all these wonderful and fantastical specifications that no-one else has been able to even come remotely close to. To the best of my knowledge, the technology that would be required to achieve those specifications doesn't even exist yet. The bottom line is that the fact that there is no described prototype in existence, other than on paper and in artist renditions, makes the highlighted parts of those seven points complete, and apparently intentional, falsehoods. Physics dictates that something that's non-existent can't HAVE or BE any of the things they are saying it HAS and IS.

Aptera was denied two ATVM loans in 2009. Then these exact same people who are now trying to raise funds for a new Aptera claimed in 2011 that the DOE offered them a $150M low interest loan if Aptera met a requirement of raising a matching amount themselves. The New York Times contacted the DOE which said that it had not committed to loaning the company any money.. To the best of my knowledge, a lot of people lost a good deal of money when these same people took the original Aptera into bankruptcy. And now they use deceptive language right out of the box on their fundraising page, of all places? I'm curious to know how they'll respond to your inquiry. Please let us know.

This what they had to say and I have sent them your current quote.

Jerry, we have built many vehicles and had their performance tested at Argonne National Laboratories. This has given us very good data on energy usage. And we have over 1,000 hours of testing on our solar package now and know what it is capable of. We are very confident in those number and though we are not delivering vehicles yet we have the data to confidently say the energy from this solar package will propel this vehicle 40+ miles a day. We understand if you'd like to wait to evaluate our performance yourself but we feel we have to talk about what our product is capable of or people will not be able to evaluate us properly. We strive to very accurately portray what this vehicle can and can not do. We appreciate your feedback and hope that you will follow our story so you can judge for yourself once we have vehicles available for you to test drive. Thanks!
 
Last edited:

RSchneider

Elio Addict
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
2,792
Reaction score
1,912
Location
Hellertown, PA
This what they had to say and I have sent them this your current quote.

Jerry, we have built many vehicles and had their performance tested at Argonne National Laboratories. This has given us very good data on energy usage. And we have over 1,000 hours of testing on our solar package now and know what it is capable of. We are very confident in those number and though we are not delivering vehicles yet we have the data to confidently say the energy from this solar package will propel this vehicle 40+ miles a day. We understand if you'd like to wait to evaluate our performance yourself but we feel we have to talk about what our product is capable of or people will not be able to evaluate us properly. We strive to very accurately portray what this vehicle can and can not do. We appreciate your feedback and hope that you will follow our story so you can judge for yourself once we have vehicles available for you to test drive. Thanks!
So where are the reports? If they exist, they will have them available. I doubt you can use a national lab as a reference unless you have the documents to back it up. So they are blowing you off with this. Again, question it until proven.
 

Travelbuzz1

Elio Addict
Joined
Jul 21, 2015
Messages
751
Reaction score
675
Location
Sioux Falls, South Dakota
These same people, and subsequently the companies that bought the intellectual property when they went bankrupt in 2011, made two prototypes with 120 and 100 mile ranges respectively. They tried to compete in the X-prize contest in 2010 and the vehicle overheated after traveling 30 laps of the 50 lap trial. These are the only known Aptera prototypes in existence, but the same people are now telling potential unqualified investors (and please note the red caps in quotation marks):

1 In addition to "ITS 1,000+ MILE BATTERY RANGE", the Aptera "CAN" travel 40+ miles a day on the free power from "ITS INTEGRATED SOLAR PANELS."
2 Gas cars are inefficient and EVs today aren't efficient enough.
3 The Aptera "IS" aerodynamic, lightweight, strong, and fun to drive!
4 By 2022, we expect to realize margins of 35% selling 11,250 units per year.
5 Each Aptera owner could reduce their carbon footprint by over 14,000 pounds of CO2 per year.
6 "IT'S SAFE". The Aptera "HAS" a passenger safety cell stronger than that of any other vehicle on the road today.
7 It's affordable. The Aptera "HAS" only 10 key structural parts "AND USES" less materials and fewer batteries. This means we can build it relatively cheaply.

WAY down the fundraising page, they tell you the funds they are asking you for will be used to build THE FIRST PROTOTYPE. However, the parts of the seven points above that I highlighted, unless I live in an alternate reality, make it sound like there's a fully tested prototype running around a track somewhere getting all these wonderful and fantastical specifications that no-one else has been able to even come remotely close to. To the best of my knowledge, the technology that would be required to achieve those specifications doesn't even exist yet. The bottom line is that the fact that there is no described prototype in existence, other than on paper and in artist renditions, makes the highlighted parts of those seven points complete, and apparently intentional, falsehoods. Physics dictates that something that's non-existent can't HAVE or BE any of the things they are saying it HAS and IS.

Aptera was denied two ATVM loans in 2009. Then these exact same people who are now trying to raise funds for a new Aptera claimed in 2011 that the DOE offered them a $150M low interest loan if Aptera met a requirement of raising a matching amount themselves. The New York Times contacted the DOE which said that it had not committed to loaning the company any money.. To the best of my knowledge, a lot of people lost a good deal of money when these same people took the original Aptera into bankruptcy. And now they use deceptive language right out of the box on their fundraising page, of all places? I'm curious to know how they'll respond to your inquiry. Please let us know.

Here is an answer from your second quote:

Thanks, Jerry, this has many incorrect points but I don't want to fill up this Q&A too much and drown out other questions people might find useful by addressing all of them. But simply - The old company did not go bankrupt, it was liquidated and all vendors, bills, and employees were paid with the surplus going back to investors. Any deposits the company was holding were returned to people to the best of their ability. There were more than a dozen prototypes built prior to liquidation. None were made after the liquidation by any other company. The original founders were not involved in the X-prize or the last two years of Aptera's existence before liquidation. - But now we have the company back and are forming, what we feel is, a great base to supply people with efficient transportation. This product will not be for everyone but we hope it catches on with those that want to have less of an impact on the environment around them and want to reduce the material and resources they consume. We try to describe our offerings as best we can with the legacy testing data we have and the current data we are collecting. And we are happy to answer any questions that people might have regarding these descriptions. We hope that people understand the nature of our business and our products so they can make informed investment decisions. And, after understanding, choose to support our efforts. Thanks for illustrating these comments!

Elio Amazed: This will cost you 25 likes for the speedy responses, you can have them transferred to my account here...:tea:
 

Elio Amazed

Elio Addict
Joined
Jun 30, 2014
Messages
3,507
Reaction score
4,630
Here is an answer from your second quote:

Thanks, Jerry, this has many incorrect points but I don't want to fill up this Q&A too much and drown out other questions people might find useful by addressing all of them. But simply - The old company did not go bankrupt, it was liquidated and all vendors, bills, and employees were paid with the surplus going back to investors. Any deposits the company was holding were returned to people to the best of their ability. There were more than a dozen prototypes built prior to liquidation. None were made after the liquidation by any other company. The original founders were not involved in the X-prize or the last two years of Aptera's existence before liquidation. - But now we have the company back and are forming, what we feel is, a great base to supply people with efficient transportation. This product will not be for everyone but we hope it catches on with those that want to have less of an impact on the environment around them and want to reduce the material and resources they consume. We try to describe our offerings as best we can with the legacy testing data we have and the current data we are collecting. And we are happy to answer any questions that people might have regarding these descriptions. We hope that people understand the nature of our business and our products so they can make informed investment decisions. And, after understanding, choose to support our efforts. Thanks for illustrating these comments!

Elio Amazed: This will cost you 25 likes for the speedy responses, you can have them transferred to my account here...:tea:
So they are very aware that the wording in their description is misleading at best and dishonest (IMO) at worst. Judging from their response, they don't care and think doing business that way is just fine. People should send money to these individuals with their track record who are pitching a vehicle with the Aptera's track record and are claiming absurd specifications without even offering so much as documentation on those figures? LMAO. They've got a pair of big ones, I'll give them that much. Just so you know, all the information I've seen says that the intellectual property was sold to a Chinese company by Aptera's investors after the company went out of business, not by Aptera itself. But, in all seriousness, thanks for trying. Their responses were interesting and enlightening as I had anticipated they would be.

"Although the company attracted a lot of attention for its innovative ideas, it soon crash landed and filed for bankruptcy." https://cleantechnica.com/2019/08/2...roved-electric-car-will-have-1000-mile-range/

"The once bankrupt startup restarts, claiming its future EV will go from zero to 60 mph in three seconds flat." https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a28860453/aptera-ev-1000-mile-range/

"When bankruptcy forced Aptera’s founders to abandon their original business, they expected larger, well-capitalized automakers to step in and pursue greater efficiencies in every aspect of EV design." https://spectrum.ieee.org/cars-that...reboots-as-worlds-most-efficient-electric-car

"Time went on, and in 2011 Aptera began refunding deposits for the vehicle, called the 2e, before going bankrupt and closing up shop." https://www.autoblog.com/2019/08/28/aptera-3-wheel-electric-vehicle-revival/

"EV fans had a huge blow when Aptera Motors filed for bankruptcy in 2011." https://insideevs.com/news/367669/aptera-back-most-efficient-ev/

"After going bankrupt in late 2011, rumors of Aptera's revival popped up here and there. In 2013, for example, Zap (now there's another name from the past) was going to bring it back as Zaptera. That never happened, but maybe the third time is the charm." https://www.forbes.com/sites/sebast...a-34000-aerodynamic-trike-maybe/#85400a42f996

Regarding their response of: "This product will not be for everyone but we hope it catches on with those that want to have less of an impact on the environment around them and want to reduce the material and resources they consume."... I urge everyone to watch the video on their funding page. It's nothing more than one continuous woke-scold, made to shame people susceptible to that sort of passive-aggressive propaganda into throwing their money at this unicorn. Seriously, watch it. It turned my stomach.
 
Last edited:

Watashiwah

Elio Addict
Joined
Aug 24, 2016
Messages
634
Reaction score
494
Location
DC area
Indeed, their promotion is an emotional appeal with nothing focused on the product: fishing for dupes. They will likely succeed at least enough to get rich. They really don’t have to put anything ‘on the road.’

Woke-scold !!! Perfect!! I love it!! Thanks for turning me on to that expression!!

I’ll give Aptera that their non vehicle certainly is ‘sleek and sexy’ while ours is more ‘pragmatic and utilitarian.’ Kinda like Ginger and Mary Ann, but both in a factually impossible but highly fanciful shipwreck.
 
Last edited:

RSchneider

Elio Addict
Joined
Jan 6, 2017
Messages
2,792
Reaction score
1,912
Location
Hellertown, PA
Indeed, their promotion is an emotional appeal with nothing focused on the product: fishing for dupes. They will likely succeed at least enough to get rich. They really don’t have to put anything ‘on the road.’

Woke-scold !!! Perfect!! I love it!! Thanks for turning me on to that expression!!

I’ll give Aptera that their non vehicle certainly is ‘sleek and sexy’ while ours is more ‘pragmatic and utilitarian.’ Kinda like Ginger and Mary Ann, but both in a factually impossible but highly fanciful shipwreck.
It's one of those videos trying to guilt you into buying into this as it's going to somehow save the planet and make you feel warm and fuzzy inside. They obviously are going after a certain market and not for everyone.
 
Top Bottom