I Have Given Up On Elio, Have You?

RSchneider said:

You make a good point. I suggest people look at other failed crowdfunded projects and the same exact sentiment appears. People think that the company pocketed the money and did nothing. Then they scream, "Someone needs to sue them." What they are really saying is, I bet on the wrong horse and now I'm going to blame the jockey, owner and trainer, thus someone needs to sue them for not winning. What they didn't do was do the proper research ahead of the bet but just bet on that horse because it was pretty and had a neat name.

When a business plan doesn't work out or a the people running it are doing a bad job, it's what I call real life. Not everyone is cut out for every job and sometimes they go into something that is over their head. Elio is a combination of both. Paul is really sealing the deal right now by not communicating with anyone. That's where he's over his head. As for the business plan, it was way too aggressive and idealistic, thus never going to work unless it was adjusted. It was sort of adjusted but not even close to what was needed. If you want to see this played out every day, look into the restaurant business. This happens all of the time.

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Some time ago there was a concept, "The Peter Principle", where people advance until they reach "their level of incompetence". It does seem to be a valid observation.

johnsnownw said:

This simply isn't true. Just because you can charge a BEV this way, does not mean it is being charged this way. Again, I will point to the map I posted earlier. Coal usage in California is around 3%, and they have 50% of the US BEV fleet.

Saying that EVs are powered by coal and oil is simply incorrect. Even if all of the "Unspecified" generation was fossil fuel, it would still make up a lower percentage than the Renewable or low Carbon generation. Meaning that, more than 51% of CA's power comes from non-FF related sources.

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You just reduced the United States of America down to one State - California. There is more to the US than just one state.

And you didn't include the rest of the world.
It will take much more time for everyone to get cleaner electric energy.


Still pretty accurate.

This is why it shows that a $7450 Elio that gives 84 mpg is still the winner. Gas is king and Elio found the answer 12 years ago. Now I ask, with how bad EV's are, why don't the American public just put all of their money into Elio and show people like Elon that they are dead wrong? So I know you all like internet debates but you all hold the hand into making the ICE Elio as the way to go. So do it.

Michael Casey said:

You just reduced the United States of America down to one State - California. There is more to the US than just one state.
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And you didn't include the rest of the world.
It will take much more time for everyone to get cleaner electric energy.

Still pretty accurate.

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Your original picture was of a Hybrid charging in California...and as I said...CA has 50% of the BEVs. I also posted a map of the entire country...which you seem to be ignoring.

I don't live in "the world", and no one plugs into the the "US" grid...the greenness of a BEV is entirely dependent on the region you live in. Many people are able to charge their BEVs with home solar...probably many more than use a portable gas generator.

Stating that BEVs run on coal and oil is disingenuous at best. To add, the pie chart you posted is one of energy consumption...it's not surprising that petroleum is high since there are so many vehicles on the road...ICE vehicles.

A $7450. ELIO is a fantasy 3wheeler not based on reality. I've since moved my focus on EMV's SOLO so as not to waste my 1K all-in plus the it's E-range of 100 miles is more than enough for my retiree daily commute and for $18,500, you get a truly unique ride and none of the fancy gizmos that I don't need nor want. All I wanted is something to take me from point A to B period. But now I'm thinking for even less money, I can buy a brand new 2020 Chevy Spark LS with my preferred 5 speed transmission (no CVT for me thank you), 1.4 ecotec 4 cyl. engine (not 3!), 30 city/38 hwy, 4 wheels, excellent ownership cost and did I say it's got A/C??? All for $13,280!!!! GM's South Korean unit declared that it may discontinue the Spark relatively soon. As of right now, the plan is to reportedly replace the Chevy Spark with a new crossover vehicle. This crossover would enter production around 2022....Nevertheless, all signs point toward the Spark's recent redesign as being it's last...….so I'm getting my 5 speed Spark before it becomes a classic....I might even toy with it after a while and install a regular 3 cyl. engine (dirt cheap) and see if it can come close to ELIO's magical 84 mpg! Reality.

3wheelin said:

I can buy a brand new 2020 Chevy Spark LS with my preferred 5 speed transmission (no CVT for me thank you), 1.4 ecotec 4 cyl. engine (not 3!), 30 city/38 hwy, 4 wheels, excellent ownership cost and did I say it's got A/C??? All for $13,280!!!!

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If you lived in Mexico, you can buy that Spark as a bare bones model (it's called the Beat) for $7300 MSRP. GM is pretty good at taking the previous gen of the cheapest car and keep selling it there. Thus it becomes really cheap by our standards. On the other hand, the Mexican roads and driving standards pretty much age cars much faster than in the US. There is the more expensive Nissan March (also called a Micra for the Canadian Market) that's for $8900 in Mexico and $7900 in Canada (I'm using exchange rates to get USD). The funny part is you rarely see those cars in those countries. You'd think the March and Beat would be all over Mexico yet they are not. Even the Micra is not seen than much in Canada.

RSchneider said:

If you lived in Mexico, you can buy that Spark as a bare bones model (it's called the Beat) for $7300 MSRP. GM is pretty good at taking the previous gen of the cheapest car and keep selling it there. Thus it becomes really cheap by our standards. On the other hand, the Mexican roads and driving standards pretty much age cars much faster than in the US. There is the more expensive Nissan March (also called a Micra for the Canadian Market) that's for $8900 in Mexico and $7900 in Canada (I'm using exchange rates to get USD). The funny part is you rarely see those cars in those countries. You'd think the March and Beat would be all over Mexico yet they are not. Even the Micra is not seen than much in Canada.

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In Canada small SUVs seem to dominate. It seems every second vehicle is a RAV or CRV.Teslas very popular, few Leafs. Outside the cities it is big pick ups. Vehicle price and fuel mileage do not seem important.

Samalross said:

In Canada small SUVs seem to dominate. It seems every second vehicle is a RAV or CRV.Teslas very popular, few Leafs. Outside the cities it is big pick ups. Vehicle price and fuel mileage do not seem important.

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When you go to Europe, it used to be micro cars everywhere. Today, a VW Golf is the smallest thing you see and over the last 5 years, more and more CUV's. You'd think that with their price for fuel, they would not be doing that, yet they do. What I see in Canada, is just like the US (exactly what you mentioned). This past weekend, I just noted that the parking lot was about 8-% full of vehicles that are the same size and class as a CRV. My wife has a black 2018 CRV company car and trust me, if it wasn't for the remote, I'd never find it. There will be a dozen of other similar black vehicles that look exactly the same.
Even in Iceland (which is right up there with the most expensive fuel on the planet) they drive CRV tyoe vehicles in the one real city and the rest of the country is littered with Ford F350 crew cab duallys. In China, their middle class is growing like crazy, the dealers are stocked with things like CRV's but most are extended wheelbase (due to their culture demands lots of legroom for the rear seat). This is why companies like VW only sell the Atlas in the US and China. The Tiguan is only sold in LWB form for both of those countries too (I have visited a VW dealer there a few times). The way I see it, this will be perfect for the future EV's as they need lots of real estate to get the range we demand. We can thank Tesla for setting that bar.

It' a shame Honda doesn't export the Honda "E" to the USA.
That is a very good "Urban" type vehicle.

I would like to see the Honda "E" exported to the USA.
No a big vehicle but still close to a mini vehicle.