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Big 3 Or Government Blocking?

Discussion in 'General Elio Discussion' started by Ken Bauman, Jun 3, 2019.

  1. Ken Bauman

    Ken Bauman New Member

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    I can't help but wonder if there's efforts working against Elio behind the scenes. For a long time I followed the Aptera and they went under for strange reasons. So sad. What a great car that was going to be~! Not to be one who's into crazy ideas, but ya can't help but wonder if the big 3 and big oil would do whatever they could to kill the Elio becasue it's a threat. It's big money and armys of lawyers that Elio is up aganst. I feel it's that same machine which goes aganst anything which promises great mileage and cheaper price tag which could steal away any amount of marker share.
     
  2. Samalross

    Samalross Elio Addict

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    I doubt that anyone is blocking the Elio. The management is doing it with one bad decision after another.
     
  3. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    First off there's no Big 3. It's just GM and Ford. For the third, it's an Italian company with headquarters in the Netherlands. Then big oil. Big oil really could care less because contrary to popular belief, they sell oil to other countries. 250K Elios maximum in the US per year is not going to hurt their profits. It actually makes it go up because in the US, we are so rich that we just buy more to try to save. In the end, big oil makes out because of all of that plastic that makes up the bulk of a car which is made from oil. In addition to that, the Elio will use oil and gas plus it'll need diesel to transport it to it's final destination.

    Then, if big oil and the Big 2 were so against fuel savings, then Tesla would have never made it past 2010. Somehow Tesla did and is still going today. All the Bigs needed to do was make sure they never got an ATVM loan, make the phone call to the blue chip suppliers to not deal with Tesla, tell all of the automation companies to not sell equipment to them and then force the US government to make some erroneous standards for electric cars that would keep them from being affordable. Then, Ford invested $500M in Rivian. Makes no sense because they should have killed Rivian off because big oil needs big pickups and so does the Big 2.Plus, the Bigs would have banned VW from selling any vehicle here ever again, yet the US government is forcing them to spend $2B to electrify America. Why would the Bigs agree to that?

    The Bigs could have easily done that to Elio yet they haven't. The Bigs never stopped the ATVM loan, that was the programs fault and as we all know, hundreds of other companies got rejected. Elio has blue chip suppliers, Roush as an engineering partner, autocycle rules changed in most states to make it easier to own one, Elio to be the first Reg A+ IPO and so on. All the Bigs had to do was nip Elio in the bud back in 2012 by making the call to Racer Trust and tell them that Elio can't have that plant, ban all suppliers from dealing with Elio and change federal rules for autocycles to where they must meet all emissions and crash standards that cars have to. If that happened, this forum would never have been founded and about 1K people would even remember what an Elio was to be.

    GM and Ford have enough problems to deal with. Big oil has a global customer base and those developing countries are using more and more oil everyday. This all reminds me of the guy who had the 200 mpg carburetor back in the 70's. The Arabs came in and bought him out. That was the rumor. Too bad it was never true and that we've advanced engine management to the point we just can't get much better. That 200 mpg carb sounded great and the story about the Arabs made it perfect. You would have thought that the Big 3 would have bought it and installed it on everything back then. It would have resolved many of their problems. Imagine a Boss 429 Mustang that gave 200 mpg. There would have been no reason to make all of those economy cars back then.
     
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  4. Ty

    Ty Elio Addict

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    um... Well said, sir!
     
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  5. KD

    KD Elio Addict

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    Speaking of "The Bigs" and their wiley ways...
    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/teslas-secret-source-cash-finally-164120826.html
     
  6. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    Those are misleading titles. It's been known for years that manufacturers buy and sell carbon credits. Tesla is no different. Plus companies buy others just to get them too. For example, VAG bought Ducati. Seems odd for a car company to get into a small Italian manufacturer but in the EU, motorcycles are subject to the carbon credit thing. Thus, Ducati offset Lamborghini and Bentley. Since Ducati was on it's death bed, VAG is propping it up just enough to get those carbon credits. Same as to why they bought Seat and Skoda.

    It was well known that Toyota and Honda were selling credits to the big 3 for years. Most people just don't realize it until they read abut it and it sounds confusing as to why the system exists in the first place. In the end, it's to reduce the overall amount of CO2 emissions and raise mpg. If one company can't get the numbers and the other one does exceeding well, then one sells and the other buys. The overall number goes in the direction of lower for one and moving the other up.

    If Ford, GM and FCA would have done a better job on building fuel efficient cars with low emissions output, they wouldn't have to do this. In the other hand, sales of pickups and SUV's is like a drug. They just can't stop and all other projects just go by the wayside. For them, buy credits from Tesla, Toyota and Honda instead of engineering a better product. Trust me, it'll catch up with them soon. GM will be the first to fall.
     
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  7. Ty

    Ty Elio Addict

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    The other side of the credit system is that it rewards wanted behavior (fuel efficiency) while punishing bad behavior (Trucks/SUVs that get bad mileage). The trickle down effect is that manufacturers will discount sedans in order to sell more of them and earn their credits and they'll charge more for the trucks so they can buy more credits.

    The bad part is that Ford and GM figured it was cheaper to just pay the fines/buy credits than it was to prop up poor performing auto lines. So, we see the death of sedans. You also see Ford buying into Rivian. I think GM may be in a bit more trouble than Ford in the next few years though. Despite what some detractors say, people WILL buy electric F-150s... and Silverados, I suppose. I don't think a manufacturer could build ONLY electric trucks yet and still survive but I believe they need to sell electric versions of their Trucks.

    I, for one, am looking forward to the "Mustang inspired" Electric SUV that Ford is working on. Ford and GM may not be the first companies you think of when you think electric vehicles but they DO know how to manufacture a crap-ton of vehicles without all the "production hell" drama that Tesla brings out.
     
  8. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    The overall volume is what the plan is. Get it to go down. No different than why VAG bought Skoda and then it offsets the Bentley. One cheap car company to counteract the really expensive one.

    With Ford and GM, they do know how to make pickups and we as Americans, love buying them. GM and Ford could do exactly what Tesla does but the main issue is that they have cut back their engineering development programs that in the end, it's just improve what they have and not innovate. There will be a time that you can only beat that dead horse so much. I feel that Ford does still try to be a bit innovative but with their investment in Rivian, I think they just decided to give up and let someone else do it. GM could do the same if they just invested in Elio and put together a program to get that product out there. GM already has a pickup but could capitalize on their remaining power to get the US Government to include the Elio on the carbon credit program. At this point, Elio does not have the financial backing to get that done. GM does. It could set up a way to experiment. What does better? EV Pickups that cost $80K or a ICE three wheeler that costs $8K? If GM would green light Elio the resources, they would be rolling off the assembly line in 6 months.
     
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  9. Ty

    Ty Elio Addict

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    Ford has said that the F-150 is being developed in-house and that their investment in Rivian is to lock down the architecture for future vehicles.
     
  10. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    Ford has a massive truck engineering department. With that and Rivians new blood, it’s a good marriage. This is what Elio needs too. It would pot the polish on that car and use Elio fresh blood to push in new ideas.
     

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