The Importance Of A Clear Direction

[Jeff Miller]

I was reflecting this morning on some of the similarities between the Fiero and the Elio.

Like my future Elio, I was excited about the concept of a 2 seat, mid-engine, american made car and ordered a Fiero sight unseen. The Fiero was the first new car I purchased and I really didn't know what to expect. I had ambitions of it being a sporty little car that would be better than the old fuddy duddy cars my dad bought and better than the clunkers I had been previously relegated to driving due to my economic situation at the time. I was ignorant of the issues that existed in Pontiac that ultimately led to the Fiero's demise.

Pontiac struggled with the Fiero's identity and really didn't have a clear and consistent direction for it. Some circles wanted it to be a competitor to the corvette while other circles wanted it to be an economy car. The Fiero came to market as an economy car but continued to struggle with its identity and progressively moved toward the performance market until its demise. Although I liked my Fiero, the reality is that I believe it failed due to its inability to determine what it should be. As it progressed toward a performance vehicle it became too expensive and failed as an economy vehicle. As a performance vehicle it carried the baggage from its original economy car concepts and with its end price it was no longer competitive in the market place.

EM is different from Pontiac. EM has been ever vigilant in trying to keep the elio affordable with good mileage and be a truly economical vehicle. The elio fans are however a lot like Pontiac. Many fans want the economy vehicle that EM is trying to produce while many other fans want the elio to be a performance vehicle with turbo/super chargers; still others can't conceive of a vehicle without all the amenities of vehicles that cost 5x or more than what EM is targeting for the elio.

I believe EM is listening to those that want more and that they will look to addressing the performance and luxury markets once the first elio is a success. In the meantime, I appreciate the fact that they remain true to their vision and that they will ultimately succeed because they know what they want to build and they know that there is a huge market for it.

 

[Ekh]

Jeff, I think you've put this very well. Elio is an economy car at bottom. It's a two-seater "runabout" (to use a really ancient term). By promoting the car's long cruising range (drive Cincinnati to Detroit AND BACK on one tank of gas), EM may be muddying the waters a bit, confusing the Elio with a road-trip car. And of course, we do like our options... which EM is happy to accommodate ... which feeds the fantasies of the gear-heads among us.

But in larger terms, I think EM is doing a good job positioning the car. The problem is that at the moment, the people who are reserving Elios aren't the target market! We are collectively much older and much wealthier than the folks the car is intended to serve: singles, students, and long-range commuters who need cheap transport to get to a distant job.

EM is at some risk of being seduced by the glamour of car shows and the demographics of those who are signing up. But the underlying positioning of the vehicle as an economy car which is safe, reliable, and fun to drive will see them through -- if they don't get too dazzled by fans like us and automotive press writers.

 

[skygazer6033]

I believe Elio is attractive to basically all age groups for a variety of reasons. The reason us "geezers" adopters outnumber everyone else 2 to 1 is because we have the money and aren't that concerned about keeping the lights on and food on the table as some younger folks are. It's a great irony that the very people who really need the Elio most are the ones that can't afford to place a deposit.

 

[floydv]

I think Elio has no choice but to position and market this vehicle as a safe, reliable, simple, and affordable 3-wheeled vehicle replacement for VMT (vehicle miles traveled) that would otherwise be made by a person's other, more gas guzzling vehicle(s). In other words, EM is exactly where it needs to be. If the Elio were substantially more expensive ($10,000+), it would then be competing against compact econoboxes that are only a couple years old. If it were fitted with a high performance, high HP engine, it would be viewed as a rich person's weekend toy (no doubt the high performance engine would raise prices substantially). If it had all the latest doodads and electronics, it would be viewed less as a vehicle for the masses.

As for the claim that most of the interested potential buyers are older and wealthier than the target audience, I have seen no robust data to confirm that, only a non-scientific survey filled by those of us who are already predisposed to watching this forum. I have only seen the average buy in of less than $500, and no stats on the median buy-in, which would give more info on the distribution of the buy-ins. In any case, I don't have an issue with first adopters being wealthier than the ultimate target audience. After all, that's a standard model of new technology/device rollouts. Even electric vehicles are coming down to prices that are reachable by more people, where just a few years ago they were almost exclusively targeted for the wealthy.

 

[ehwatt]

I think Elio has no choice but to position and market this vehicle as a safe, reliable, simple, and affordable 3-wheeled vehicle replacement for VMT (vehicle miles traveled) that would otherwise be made by a person's other, more gas guzzling vehicle(s). In other words, EM is exactly where it needs to be. If the Elio were substantially more expensive ($10,000+), it would then be competing against compact econoboxes that are only a couple years old. If it were fitted with a high performance, high HP engine, it would be viewed as a rich person's weekend toy (no doubt the high performance engine would raise prices substantially). If it had all the latest doodads and electronics, it would be viewed less as a vehicle for the masses.

As for the claim that most of the interested potential buyers are older and wealthier than the target audience, I have seen no robust data to confirm that, only a non-scientific survey filled by those of us who are already predisposed to watching this forum. I have only seen the average buy in of less than $500, and no stats on the median buy-in, which would give more info on the distribution of the buy-ins. In any case, I don't have an issue with first adopters being wealthier than the ultimate target audience. After all, that's a standard model of new technology/device rollouts. Even electric vehicles are coming down to prices that are reachable by more people, where just a few years ago they were almost exclusively targeted for the wealthy.

Of course I'm not a betting man, but if I was one I would bet most of us have been or will be in both have (mature?) and have-less (young) groups. And speaking of the having-less, I wonder how much value will be lost off the lot, the used market price.

 

[3wheelin]

I was reflecting this morning on some of the similarities between the Fiero and the Elio.

Like my future Elio, I was excited about the concept of a 2 seat, mid-engine, american made car and ordered a Fiero sight unseen. The Fiero was the first new car I purchased and I really didn't know what to expect. I had ambitions of it being a sporty little car that would be better than the old fuddy duddy cars my dad bought and better than the clunkers I had been previously relegated to driving due to my economic situation at the time. I was ignorant of the issues that existed in Pontiac that ultimately led to the Fiero's demise.

Pontiac struggled with the Fiero's identity and really didn't have a clear and consistent direction for it. Some circles wanted it to be a competitor to the corvette while other circles wanted it to be an economy car. The Fiero came to market as an economy car but continued to struggle with its identity and progressively moved toward the performance market until its demise. Although I liked my Fiero, the reality is that I believe it failed due to its inability to determine what it should be. As it progressed toward a performance vehicle it became too expensive and failed as an economy vehicle. As a performance vehicle it carried the baggage from its original economy car concepts and with its end price it was no longer competitive in the market place.

EM is different from Pontiac. EM has been ever vigilant in trying to keep the elio affordable with good mileage and be a truly economical vehicle. The elio fans are however a lot like Pontiac. Many fans want the economy vehicle that EM is trying to produce while many other fans want the elio to be a performance vehicle with turbo/super chargers; still others can't conceive of a vehicle without all the amenities of vehicles that cost 5x or more than what EM is targeting for the elio.

I believe EM is listening to those that want more and that they will look to addressing the performance and luxury markets once the first elio is a success. In the meantime, I appreciate the fact that they remain true to their vision and that they will ultimately succeed because they know what they want to build and they know that there is a huge market for it.

I truly believe our ELIO will NOT suffer identity crisis like your Fiero because of one important factor, 3 wheels. You put as much gizmo in it than your wallet can afford but reality is, it will never compare to a motorcycle with two wheels in terms of speed and nimbleness, or a 4 wheeler which is a more stable flatform. As it is right now, speed of more than 100 mph might be dangerous so yes, any gear head can put turbos or install a bigger engine for more performance but at what price, your life??? If EM can deliver the 9-10 sec. to 60mph, it's more than good enough than the old bug that I still see weaving around in the freeways! It's interesting to see how our ELIO will handle the slalom test and at what speed before it starts to tilt and turn over. It's an economical means of transportation exactly what EM wants to deliver. My opinion only.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Remember, Fiero was a part of Pontiac. The Managers of the Fiero had to answer to layers of Hierarchy and through those layers, any idea, however idealistic, became distorted through committee.

The Elio is its own entity, and answers to no one but Paul Elio.

 

[Jeff Miller]

I truly believe our ELIO will NOT suffer identity crisis like your Fiero because of one important factor, 3 wheels. You put as much gizmo in it than your wallet can afford but reality is, it will never compare to a motorcycle with two wheels in terms of speed and nimbleness, or a 4 wheeler which is a more stable flatform. As it is right now, speed of more than 100 mph might be dangerous so yes, any gear head can put turbos or install a bigger engine for more performance but at what price, your life??? If EM can deliver the 9-10 sec. to 60mph, it's more than good enough than the old bug that I still see weaving around in the freeways! It's interesting to see how our ELIO will handle the slalom test and at what speed before it starts to tilt and turn over. It's an economical means of transportation exactly what EM wants to deliver. My opinion only.

Yup, kind of what I was trying to say. Unlike Pontiac and the Fiero, the elio has a stated purpose and EM is doing its best to stay the course. Staying the course will keep it from suffering the identity crises. As EM matures I'm sure it will find ways to create next generation elios that will address performance and luxury more fully.

Remember, Fiero was a part of Pontiac. The Managers of the Fiero had to answer to layers of Hierarchy and through those layers, any idea, however idealistic, became distorted through committee.

The Elio is its own entity, and answers to no one but Paul Elio.

I agree; this is one time it is good to have a dictator I was actually thinking of the Steve Jobs reference somebody posted in another thread in which some posters didn't like that Paul did things his way. Paul has a vision and he continues to drive EM and the elio toward it just as one button Jobs did with the apple.

 

[skygazer6033]

Paul may be a dictator but we have all agreed (with our deposits and investments) that we are with him in his vision. Yes we may want to customize a few things and some may not like the Elgin gauge cluster but on the big stuff we're there 100%. Price, gas mileage, safety and American made. These are the things the dictator (Paul) insists upon. If a big buck investor came onboard the big 4 would go out the window in the name of profit. Investors don't want to make a little money they want to make a killing. I don't think we would like the results. If Paul can can pull this off without loosing control I'm with him 100% if he looses control maybe not.

 

[3wheelin]

I was reflecting this morning on some of the similarities between the Fiero and the Elio.

Like my future Elio, I was excited about the concept of a 2 seat, mid-engine, american made car and ordered a Fiero sight unseen. The Fiero was the first new car I purchased and I really didn't know what to expect. I had ambitions of it being a sporty little car that would be better than the old fuddy duddy cars my dad bought and better than the clunkers I had been previously relegated to driving due to my economic situation at the time. I was ignorant of the issues that existed in Pontiac that ultimately led to the Fiero's demise.

Pontiac struggled with the Fiero's identity and really didn't have a clear and consistent direction for it. Some circles wanted it to be a competitor to the corvette while other circles wanted it to be an economy car. The Fiero came to market as an economy car but continued to struggle with its identity and progressively moved toward the performance market until its demise. Although I liked my Fiero, the reality is that I believe it failed due to its inability to determine what it should be. As it progressed toward a performance vehicle it became too expensive and failed as an economy vehicle. As a performance vehicle it carried the baggage from its original economy car concepts and with its end price it was no longer competitive in the market place.

EM is different from Pontiac. EM has been ever vigilant in trying to keep the elio affordable with good mileage and be a truly economical vehicle. The elio fans are however a lot like Pontiac. Many fans want the economy vehicle that EM is trying to produce while many other fans want the elio to be a performance vehicle with turbo/super chargers; still others can't conceive of a vehicle without all the amenities of vehicles that cost 5x or more than what EM is targeting for the elio.

I believe EM is listening to those that want more and that they will look to addressing the performance and luxury markets once the first elio is a success. In the meantime, I appreciate the fact that they remain true to their vision and that they will ultimately succeed because they know what they want to build and they know that there is a huge market for it.

Here's the funny thing, those that have the money and reserved more than 1 ELIO may not really care about it's real purpose, rather they can't wait to get their hands on it to add to their toys, to be the first in the block, to get attention, to have one of a kind transportation that they can add as much opulent touches, to have the baddest engine, to be the fastest, etc. Did I miss anything? Which group do you really belong? Now the have nots who really just want a cheap means of transportation are getting mad because with all these requests of add this and add that to the base ELIO, by the time it's available for them, it may not be within their budget! And there's no stopping the wealthy, after all, this is America right? Will I be surprise that some rich idiot try to slap 3 huge tires and big engine to it to imitate Slingshot? How about wings? A 4th wheel? The soul of an ELIO has already been bought and sold, the sad part is, the TARGET to the finish line is dictated by who else, the wealthy investors who can make it happen, who wants the most return for their money, who then wants to increase the base price!!! This is not about PE anymore, he does not have the money, he does however have the power to switch this whole project off if the deal is not on his terms! This is my reflection of the future of ELIO and again, this is just my opinion.