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The reason I hate GM to this day...

84mpg

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I stumbled across this old video of GM's Lean Machine. The 11 minute video covers the why and how they developed their three-wheeled machine. The thing could have really changed transportation. It would have been the original "and" vehicle. I was riding bikes a lot in 1984 and absolutely drooled over that mockup at Epcot. I'm not so sure it wouldn't have been more fun than a bike. You would have been a lot drier in the rain – that's a fact!

I asked someone why it stalled and was told the steering wasn't that easy to grasp. I suspect – using the feet to lean the vehicle was issue for a first timer jumping in it. I'd bet the average bike rider would have no problem driving the wheels off it after a few minutes in a parking lot.

I've never forgiven GM for not producing it. But I see why they didn't. How many of their 24 mpg vehicle sales would have been lost to a 200 mpg Lean Machine? Enough to make them hesitant to build them?

Less than 1/8th the wind resistance of an average car of that time. Wow!

Here's the YouTube link:
 
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AriLea

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Yep, that car (autocycle) probably was the thing that made me wonder for years what's up with these prototypes that never come out?
So yea, I have thought about it ever since. Survey, analyze, inspect, test. (and yup, I am not forgiving anyone either)

1) My first assumption is that it didn't fly with the public, so it was 'our' fault. (the general 'all' of us)
It is possible that if GM would have come up with and sold the 'and car' idea, things may have been different.
But pushing the low-low cost idea probably was too scary for them. After all such a thing hits across #7 below.

2) Then the next one was that they were just using it to jigger our attention with optimistic visions, so we trust 'their' motivations, and then sell us what they DO have. And that does still stand to this day I think, in fact 1 and 2 are always part of it.

But there is more,
3) If another company makes a concept that gets some steam, the others will make one too. This is to siphon off some of that attention.

4) But it also says, if you build it we can too. And if it is a bigger company, this can scare the littler one off. Or make his investors get rattled. After all, a bigger investment could easily out do a smaller one. Either by underpricing, or by up scaling the product.

I think this is what Tesla was up to with their ev autocycle, and was in reaction to the Elio. And it is so very easy today, just CGI on it, don't even need a real material example. Just Jazzy images and a pretense of capability.

5) sometimes it is just 'mental masturbation' where the company is just tying to prove to themselves that they are cool and can think of stuff. It makes the rank and file feel like the future could be worth it. A morale booster. They charge this to advertising overhead, and even use it in this way. But that was just an excuse.

6) But if it is just the bean counters involved, absolutely not, a larger established company will not do it. And a new product, especially an untested one, such as something cheaper has no track record. So they will not do it unless someone else does it first.

7) It competes with current product for another reason. Also if it changes the product sales cycle, like the product lasting forever? They don't want that. i.e. competes with future product. They want to sell to you every year (if possible), not every 20years.
(see General Motors EV1 - Who Killed the Electric Car? - no repair or replacement for 20 years!? GM: no thanks!)
"The automaker did donate about 40 disabled vehicles to Ohio State, the University of Wisconsin, Western Washington and other universities, including BYU. There's also an EV1 in the Smithsonian." But the WWU one works.
"...GM representative pointing out to us that the vehicle is not to be licensed, titled or operated on any public or private road or highway. We are allowed to exhibit the vehicle."

8) History of fails. These rules have been broken before, some with spectacular fails (Delorean). American Motors did as much of that as anyone else, and where are they today?

So would it be interesting to post all the concepts that have come and gone, deeply disappointing us? Or would this be too sad?
1632411664187.png
1632412157641.png
1632412467470.png
1632412568481.png


I will start. This is a big disappointment. But we shouldn't be surprised that Peugeot will not make a concept just because it was a contest winner.
Peugeot Liion. (I would prefer this to have been EV-FWD, without the hublessness)
Who was first in orange, Elio or Liion?
1632411829947.png
1632411854399.png

Any others you can think of?
 
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84mpg

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Yep... You hit many good points as to why these concepts never see production. I can't disagree with a single point.

I just wished ONE manufacturer would step out and produce a true "and" vehicle. Not a toy or another bloated vehicle. Here's hoping Mark can shake up the industry. It's going to take an independent "maverick" to do it. The big guys won't build one until they're forced to. Why should they?
 

3wheelin

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Yep, that car (autocycle) probably was the thing that made me wonder for years what's up with these prototypes that never come out?
So yea, I have thought about it ever since. Survey, analyze, inspect, test. (and yup, I am not forgiving anyone either)

1) My first assumption is that it didn't fly with the public, so it was 'our' fault. (the general 'all' of us)
It is possible that if GM would have come up with and sold the 'and car' idea, things may have been different.
But pushing the low-low cost idea probably was too scary for them. After all such a thing hits across #7 below.

2) Then the next one was that they were just using it to jigger our attention with optimistic visions, so we trust 'their' motivations, and then sell us what they DO have. And that does still stand to this day I think, in fact 1 and 2 are always part of it.

But there is more,
3) If another company makes a concept that gets some steam, the others will make one too. This is to siphon off some of that attention.

4) But it also says, if you build it we can too. And if it is a bigger company, this can scare the littler one off. Or make his investors get rattled. After all, a bigger investment could easily out do a smaller one. Either by underpricing, or by up scaling the product.

I think this is what Tesla was up to with their ev autocycle, and was in reaction to the Elio. And it is so very easy today, just CGI on it, don't even need a real material example. Just Jazzy images and a pretense of capability.

5) sometimes it is just 'mental masturbation' where the company is just tying to prove to themselves that they are cool and can think of stuff. It makes the rank and file feel like the future could be worth it. A morale booster. They charge this to advertising overhead, and even use it in this way. But that was just an excuse.

6) But if it is just the bean counters involved, absolutely not, a larger established company will not do it. And a new product, especially an untested one, such as something cheaper has no track record. So they will not do it unless someone else does it first.

7) It competes with current product for another reason. Also if it changes the product sales cycle, like the product lasting forever? They don't want that. i.e. competes with future product. They want to sell to you every year (if possible), not every 20years.
(see General Motors EV1 - Who Killed the Electric Car? - no repair or replacement for 20 years!? GM: no thanks!)
"The automaker did donate about 40 disabled vehicles to Ohio State, the University of Wisconsin, Western Washington and other universities, including BYU. There's also an EV1 in the Smithsonian." But the WWU one works.
"...GM representative pointing out to us that the vehicle is not to be licensed, titled or operated on any public or private road or highway. We are allowed to exhibit the vehicle."

8) History of fails. These rules have been broken before, some with spectacular fails (Delorean). American Motors did as much of that as anyone else, and where are they today?

So would it be interesting to post all the concepts that have come and gone, deeply disappointing us? Or would this be too sad?
View attachment 25205View attachment 25208View attachment 25209View attachment 25210

I will start. This is a big disappointment. But we shouldn't be surprised that Peugeot will not make a concept just because it was a contest winner.
Peugeot Liion. (I would prefer this to have been EV-FWD, without the hublessness)
Who was first in orange, Elio or Liion?
View attachment 25206View attachment 25207
Any others you can think of?
Well, one also need to understand that these concept vehicles be it 2, 3 or 4 wheel so called "game changers" designs are so way ahead in time, futuristic even that producing it in real world numbers will be really expensive- case in point is this Peugeot Liion which I've seen first time (thanks Arilea) - I love it and would buy it without consulting my wife! ;)
 
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