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USA Today posting nonstop negative articles

Sethodine

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I'm not really familiar with EVs (yet). Why would your Leaf with 80K miles get more miles per charge than your wife's 58K Leaf?
Does the additional year impact the capacity of the batteries? Looks like with less miles – her batteries would hold a better charge?

Are the batteries the same or different generations?
There was a lot of changes between those two model years, although cosmetically they appear the same.

The 2013 has a more resilient battery chemistry, some aerodynamic improvements, slightly lighter weight and some throttle curve changes that help it drive more efficiently. All these together gave it an EPA range of 82 miles brand new, compared to the 75 mile range of the previous year. So some of the differences between mine and hers were there from the start.

The battery chemistry change was the biggest improvement. 2011-12 batteries would do very poorly in hot climates, and ours apparently was originally sold in Arizona. The Leaf battery is air-cooled. All modern EVs use liquid regulated packs now, which are a bit more complex but have greater performance and far lower degredation.

So there are many factors at play. And many lessons learned, both by the manufacturers and by us. These first-generation EVs have been so incredibly cheap to own and fuel that I don't regret them for one second, but I am definitely looking forward to replacing them with modern technology.
 

84mpg

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There was a lot of changes between those two model years, although cosmetically they appear the same.

The 2013 has a more resilient battery chemistry, some aerodynamic improvements, slightly lighter weight and some throttle curve changes that help it drive more efficiently. All these together gave it an EPA range of 82 miles brand new, compared to the 75 mile range of the previous year. So some of the differences between mine and hers were there from the start.

The battery chemistry change was the biggest improvement. 2011-12 batteries would do very poorly in hot climates, and ours apparently was originally sold in Arizona. The Leaf battery is air-cooled. All modern EVs use liquid regulated packs now, which are a bit more complex but have greater performance and far lower degredation.

So there are many factors at play. And many lessons learned, both by the manufacturers and by us. These first-generation EVs have been so incredibly cheap to own and fuel that I don't regret them for one second, but I am definitely looking forward to replacing them with modern technology.
Thanks for taking time to explain. Makes perfect sense. I'm sure you got your money's worth... and more.

I suspect one day my wife and I will own an electric. Our driving routines changed two years ago and an electric would fit us well now. I can see us getting one in a year or two. However, right now I'm pulling hard for Mark's BEX. I'd like to drive the wheels off it with an ICE. Could the BEX be my last new ICE vehicle?

That's hard to believe... but times are a changin' I guess.
 

AriLea

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One of the things I would like to see the EV's change for cars... but I'm not 100% optimistic, and EV's haven't accommodated this so far, well not by preference.

The ICE drive-train is age limited to mileage on that engine. And it is not cheap to replace. Maintenance hikes up as they get older. Even more, you can't normally expect to upgrade to any new tech, even the EPA rules make that difficult. But ICE tech always changes, as well as the space required to support it, so you are always replacing the whole car. It is a very specific fit matched to the car.

Now with EV's, it's the pack that is the most limiting. And unlike an engine, the pack dimensions do not have to conform to the most recent format.
And until your electrical or electronics goes bad, maintenance is extremely low over time.

If you could replace a $1,500 pack every 3 to 10 years instead of a $31,500 car, let's say twice, saving on average $60k in 21 years. That saves society in the US every year, $2,857 per driver, (200m drivers) or $571,400,000,000 in total, every year. Right to the pocket that deserves it the most. Usually, right when you need it the most.

It is possible, as EV's become the norm, there could be a robust after-market just for that purpose. If nothing else, there might be refurbishers that buy and upgrade EV battery packs for the used car market. Unlike ICE driven cars, these will still be relevant hardware for one, two or three cycles of the packs.
And if it becomes a collector car, maybe more.

Currently, This is actually one way to keep your classic vehicle relevant. Porsche 911's, 914's and 356's do this all the time. Even 928's.
 

Mark BEX

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We actually have two.

My wife's Leaf is a 2012 with about 58k miles and a severely degraded battery. It only gets 45 miles of range on a good day. It's sufficient for her daily needs for now, but we plan on replacing it with a Lightning F-150 next year.

My daily commuter is a 2013 with 80,500 miles, and a remarkably healthy battery that still gets about 75 miles. It works fine for now, but it's 8 years old and ain't getting younger. By the time an Elio-E gets made, I might be ready to replace my commuter with something more fun.

I have 3 x EVs right now, have had 5 in total, no battery degradation at all. 2016 at 120,000kms, 2019 at 130,000kms (my daily workshop car now), and 2021 at 20,000kms.

I have seen some Leafs merely have one or two dead cells, people have replaced just the dead cells for small cost, and the batteries are fine again, you might want to investigate that, there are videos on Youtube about it.

My view on the Elio from what I posted is simple, the 'Gas Elio' Depositors paid for a lot of the development and marketing to this point in time, 60,000+ of them, they are owed a gas Elio, not an EV, unless they are asked, and a large majority respond in the positive, and they haven't been asked.

It's simply wrong.
 

Coss

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Elio depositors paid for a condo in Arizona for Paul and some cash to make it rain on Friday nights. The only thing “developed” was Pauls imagination and wallet.
And where is your proof? Or is just made up facts? Other then that, I suggest you keep comments as you made to yourself. Is that clear?
 

AriLea

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OK, a couple days ago I drove past that location for the ElectraMechanica Arizona 'factory', as shown on google-maps. Most of the rental areas are very small as far as common automotive factory space is concerned. Bex had a number of photos of his shop spaces that are lot bigger. When I worked for Boeing I measured buildings in 10ths-of-a-mile increments. This was very much the opposite. But bigger than x-car garage-space.

In any case I saw nothing that said activity in progress and no exterior signs either. (Unless I got something wrong from Google) There are a lot of buildings there, all brand new going up fast.

The economy explosion 'post covid' is very apparent around there. The Williams field near there has been very under utilized up to now. Than may change. And this industrial district is SE of ASU and between Phoenix Airport and Williams Field.

Can you imagine that the movie 'Raising Arizona' was supposed to be located NW of there, nearer to Phoenix?

Not so very long ago, it looked like this...
1636435168317.png

Now....
1636435265536.png


-----------------------------------------
Filming locations for Raising Arizona:
Phoenix, AZ., Tempe, AZ., Florence, AZ.,
Apache Junction, AZ., Scottsdale, AZ., Superior, AZ., Mesa, AZ., Carefree, AZ.
-----------------------------------------

The Solo test drive continues here....
 
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