-
Welcome to Elio Owners! Join today, registration is easy!
You can register using your Google, Facebook, or Twitter account, just click here.
The Hydrogen Fueled Rasa By Riversimple
- Thread starter Rickb
- Start date
Yes it is amazing. Hydrogen fuel cell technology has advanced dramatically. I recall exploding gas tanks on the Ford Pinto, related to design and engineering. Many negative thinkers are simply not open to change when it comes to alternative vehicle options and use single incident events to support their point of view.
floydv
Elio Addict
Not to mention the large number of gasoline fires in conventional ICE vehicles each year. 152,300 gasoline car fires in 2006-2010. It's all about context and perspective.
http://www.nfpa.org/safety-information/for-consumers/vehicles
http://www.nfpa.org/safety-information/for-consumers/vehicles
johnsnownw
Elio Addict
The biggest issue with FCEVs aren't with the technology, but with the fuel. The infrastructure costs are in the hundreds of billions, and right now the burden has been laid on taxpayers. Then, even if you get the infrastructure funded, the cost of H2 at the pump is 3-4x that of gasoline, and 5-6x that of electricity. All of the predictions for lowering the cost of hydrogen involve some technological breakthroughs, subsidies, and un-taxed fuel.
Now, the current state of the technology isn't great for light-duty vehicles either. The Mirai has the performance of a Prius, and costs Toyota well above what they are selling. The only way to increase the performance is to build a larger FC (increases cost), or install a larger battery...which would essentially mean making the vehicle a Plug-in EV, with a H2 range extender. The issue with this, of course, is that if you give an FCEV an all electric range similar to the GM Volt, 90% of it's miles would be electric. This would create sporadic demand for the H2, and make it unlikely that any companies could profit from building the stations.
Riversimple's design is interesting, but doesn't appear to be economically feasible. While they'd be the ones funding the stations and paying for fuel, the costs of each are rather expensive. The only way to make the investment back is by passing the bill onto the consumer, and doing so would make their car leasing service vastly more expensive than current alternatives.
Hydrogen really only works if light-duty vehicles are a secondary market for hydrogen. As in, there needs to already be huge demand for hydrogen in another sector, so that it wasn't vehicle consumers driving the demand. There is just no way to bring costs down, at least in a timely manner, if the main driving force has a chicken and egg problem.
It makes far more sense to use hybrids/PHEVs/Elio's...than try and make FCEVs work.
Now, the current state of the technology isn't great for light-duty vehicles either. The Mirai has the performance of a Prius, and costs Toyota well above what they are selling. The only way to increase the performance is to build a larger FC (increases cost), or install a larger battery...which would essentially mean making the vehicle a Plug-in EV, with a H2 range extender. The issue with this, of course, is that if you give an FCEV an all electric range similar to the GM Volt, 90% of it's miles would be electric. This would create sporadic demand for the H2, and make it unlikely that any companies could profit from building the stations.
Riversimple's design is interesting, but doesn't appear to be economically feasible. While they'd be the ones funding the stations and paying for fuel, the costs of each are rather expensive. The only way to make the investment back is by passing the bill onto the consumer, and doing so would make their car leasing service vastly more expensive than current alternatives.
Hydrogen really only works if light-duty vehicles are a secondary market for hydrogen. As in, there needs to already be huge demand for hydrogen in another sector, so that it wasn't vehicle consumers driving the demand. There is just no way to bring costs down, at least in a timely manner, if the main driving force has a chicken and egg problem.
It makes far more sense to use hybrids/PHEVs/Elio's...than try and make FCEVs work.
It's easier to flee a burning car than an exploding one.
Ty
Elio Addict
How about cng? There is already a kind of decent distribution network. It'd be neat to have a filling station right in your own garage. You may never ha e to fill outside. Well, trips, I suppose. Unless something changes to make hydrogen easier to come by, it probably won't be very mainstream. I read about a pump replacement that could be used at every gas station in the country that would make its own hydrogen. I don't remember the specifics.
Tessa knew there would be resistance to purely electric cars and knew it was important to change public perspectives. So, he started putting up those Tesla super charger stations everywhere and offered free charging to all Tesla owners. You won't get that with hydrogen. It's unfortunate because someone, somewhere is going to develop a fuel cell that will greatly enhance the efficiency and storage capability of fuel cells. Fuel cell capabilities last longer than battery's do don't they?
Tessa knew there would be resistance to purely electric cars and knew it was important to change public perspectives. So, he started putting up those Tesla super charger stations everywhere and offered free charging to all Tesla owners. You won't get that with hydrogen. It's unfortunate because someone, somewhere is going to develop a fuel cell that will greatly enhance the efficiency and storage capability of fuel cells. Fuel cell capabilities last longer than battery's do don't they?
johnsnownw
Elio Addict
Ty
Elio Addict
I meant life... not range. Batteries become less effective with age. Not true if fuel cells.