The Hydrogen Fueled Rasa By Riversimple

[Rickb]

The hydrogen powered Rasa by Riversimple is an interesting looking 2 seater design based on current technology. The Riversimple business model is even more interesting in that they don't want to sell cars, but rather lease them to include all fuel and maintenance costs.

 

[TCBronson]

That is very interesting! I wonder about the infrastructure and availability of hydrogen in Europe vs. the US. There are several companies with fuel cell cars, I think Honda was one of the first. He used cell phones as an example as their business model which I thought was interesting.

 

[Marshall]

Hydrogen powered engines have been bounced around for at least fifty years. the key drawback was their portability and extreme explosive potential.

Compressing the hydrogen gas (like Compressed Natural Gas) requires a very heavy container which adversely affects the handling and space requirements and any leak could be catastrophic. It's like driving around in a bomb. Both Hydrogen gas (Hindenburg anyone) and CNG are far more volatile than gasoline.

Using electrolysis to produce the hydrogen in the car has always run into the law of conservation of energy and is simply a type of perpetual motion machine. It takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get burning it.

I'd love to see how they plan on overcoming these challenges. But the advertisement addressed none of them.

 

[Sethodine]

Hydrogen powered engines have been bounced around for at least fifty years. the key drawback was their portability and extreme explosive potential.

Compressing the hydrogen gas (like Compressed Natural Gas) requires a very heavy container which adversely affects the handling and space requirements and any leak could be catastrophic. It's like driving around in a bomb. Both Hydrogen gas (Hindenburg anyone) and CNG are far more volatile than gasoline.

Using electrolysis to produce the hydrogen in the car has always run into the law of conservation of energy and is simply a type of perpetual motion machine. It takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get burning it.

I'd love to see how they plan on overcoming these challenges. But the advertisement addressed none of them.

The hydrogen fuel cell cars function differently. They use a process that combines hydrogen with oxygen without igniting it. The process produces electricity and water as a result. But the expense of this system is the main reason it is generally considered as unfeasable in a production vehicle.
The amount of hydrogen stored in the car is not particularly dangerous, but the hydrogen fuel tanks at the refueling/production stations might be large enough to cause worry.

 

[Marshall]

Interesting. But the Hydrogen still must be compressed and it must be contained, But even without combustion, the hydrogen is oxidized to produce the water. I suspect the amount of hydrogen required is similar to that which would be required if it were used in a ICE. Perhaps some gain in efficiency is there, but those would be interesting numbers.

As usual, science can do more in a lab than finances would justify as a business model. I know fuel cells were used in the space program, but they didn't worry too much about costs.

 

[Ekh]

Hydrogen powered engines have been bounced around for at least fifty years. the key drawback was their portability and extreme explosive potential.

Compressing the hydrogen gas (like Compressed Natural Gas) requires a very heavy container which adversely affects the handling and space requirements and any leak could be catastrophic. It's like driving around in a bomb. Both Hydrogen gas (Hindenburg anyone) and CNG are far more volatile than gasoline.

Using electrolysis to produce the hydrogen in the car has always run into the law of conservation of energy and is simply a type of perpetual motion machine. It takes more energy to produce the hydrogen than you get burning it.

I'd love to see how they plan on overcoming these challenges. But the advertisement addressed none of them.

Some years ago a guy figured out a system for releasing sodium hydroxide pellets into water, liberating hydrogen, which was then piped to a fuel cell or to an IC engine and burned. So you did NOT need an armored canister of free hydrogen gas, eliminating the explosion risk. The sodium balls were collected and re-charged at a factory. (It might not have been sodium hydroxide specifically, but it was definitely a sodium compound that was stable until mixed with water. This was about 20 years or more ago, so I'm fuzzy on the details.

They as far as a demo plant, but I no longer remember the name of the company -- my guess is that they didn't make it because at the time there wasn't enough interest in clean fuels.

UPDATE

Here's a link to a white paper the inventors submitted to the Feds in 1999, They were called Powerball Technology.

https://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/28890pp2.pdf

 

[WilliamH]

And least we forget........ there is always Browns gas to add into the mix.

 

[Ty]

Remember all the Hindenburg pictures? The huge flames? Hydrogen burns clear.

"I have a great idea, let's make a big blimp filled with a burnable gas."
"And then?"
"And then we'll make sure when it flies that it generates a lot of static electricity."
"And then?"
"And then we'll make sure to coat the whole thing with a nice layer of rocket fuel."
"And then?"
"And then we'll make sure not to dissipate the static electricity before hitting the docking tower."
"And then?"
"And then we'll forever ruin a source of clean burning fuel for a society that forever links the burning rocket fuel to hydrogen."
"And then?"
"No more 'And then'."

 

[bunchathrees]

Remember all the Hindenburg pictures? The huge flames? Hydrogen burns clear.

"I have a great idea, let's make a big blimp filled with a burnable gas."
"And then?"
"And then we'll make sure when it flies that it generates a lot of static electricity."
"And then?"
"And then we'll make sure to coat the whole thing with a nice layer of rocket fuel."
"And then?"
"And then we'll make sure not to dissipate the static electricity before hitting the docking tower."
"And then?"
"And then we'll forever ruin a source of clean burning fuel for a society that forever links the burning rocket fuel to hydrogen."
"And then?"
"No more 'And then'."

Channeling Freddy Got Fingered. Nice.

 

[Marshall]

Remember all the Hindenburg pictures? The huge flames? Hydrogen burns clear.

"I have a great idea, let's make a big blimp filled with a burnable gas."
"And then?"
"And then we'll make sure when it flies that it generates a lot of static electricity."
"And then?"
"And then we'll make sure to coat the whole thing with a nice layer of rocket fuel."
"And then?"
"And then we'll make sure not to dissipate the static electricity before hitting the docking tower."
"And then?"
"And then we'll forever ruin a source of clean burning fuel for a society that forever links the burning rocket fuel to hydrogen."
"And then?"
"No more 'And then'."

The paper does a good job of describing how the fuel cell works. It does indeed solve the problems of compressed gas and it's storage. The Sodium Hydride combines with water to produce the hydrogen to fuel the cell and leaves a residue of Sodium Hydroxide which must be recaptured and reprocessed using...methane. So it may be cleaner, but it's not clean. Sort of like an ICE which is more efficient...like an ELIO.