Why Buy Elio (don't Worry, I'm All In)

[Marshall]

The only thing that appeals to me about sustainable transportation options is that they are sustainable by this definition: Any form of transport that does not use or rely on dwindling natural resources. Instead it relies on renewable or regenerated energy rather than fossil fuel that have a finite life. I think future generations will be grateful to those that adopt the philosophy and supported the technology to make it happen. I think we need ICE, hybrid, and PEV options. Drive what you like, Like what you drive.

If money is not an object, I might agree. But money and financially sustainability are part of the equation. In fact, money could be loosely used as an indicator of planetary resources. More expensive is roughly a requirement of more planetary resources.

This is why an Elio at or near the target price and fuel efficient works for me. Plus, I'd agree to eat a formerly flatulent cow a year to offset the ICE.

 

[Marshall]

Exactly. Plus, the tax should include some function including weight of vehicle. Though it pains me to say this, my 9,000 lbs truck is probably harder on the road than my daughter's prius. So, 10,000 miles on the road in my truck would do more damage than the same miles in her prius. I'm thinking something along these lines:
1. Vehicles would have to have mileage checks done to be registered.
2. Each year, the mileage would have to be verified prior to registering again.
3. Tax paid would be in the form of a straight $.10 per gallon which is less than the current $.189 per gallon we all pay in federal gas tax. Plus, there would be a tax based on weight of vehicles and number of miles driven. It would look something like this:
[(# miles driven/1,000) X (weight / 6000)] X (tax rate factor)
### I'll use 6 as the tax factor and 6,000 lbs as the weight factor. A 6,000 lb car would have a weight factor of 1.0 ###

Federal gas tax is 18.4¢ per gallon right now. Drop that to 10.0¢ per gallon.

For this example, assume you currently drive 10,000 miles a year.

Under current rules:

Case A: 10,000 lb truck that gets 15 mpg. Tax burden is $122.67
Case B: 2,765 lb prius that gets 40 mpg. Tax burden is $47.25
Case C: 4,647 lbTesla that uses no gas. Tax burden is $0.
Total tax collected is $169.92

The tesla uses the road but does not pay for the upkeep which makes it unfair to all other tax payers.

The new system:
Case A: 10,000 lb truck that gets 15 mpg. Tax burden is $66.67+$100=$166.67. (Tax burden is tax per gallon + weight-miles tax)
Case B: 2,765 lb prius that gets 40 mpg. Tax burden is $25+$27.65=$52.64
Case C: 4,647 lb Tesla that uses no gas. Tax burden is $0+46.47=$46.47
Total tax collected = $265.78

This would be an incentive to buy lighter, less damaging, higher mileage vehicles while those car owners would still contribute to road maintenance.

Case D: 1,300 lb Elio at 84 mpg: Tax burden is $11.90+$12.99=$24.89

I like these examples.

Case A: My F350 was 9,995 pounds.

Case B: My Prius is a PriusC, but I get 50 MPG.

Case C: What can I say. Electrics aren't financially viable for me and I don't think others should subsidize those who CAN afford them. I feel the same way about sports stadiums.

Case D: The vehicle that I have reserved AND which is the best choice soon to be available to reduce the human environmental impact on the planet.

One EV @ $34K replaces a 25 MPG vehicle saving 25 MPG.

Five Elios @ $6.8K or $34K total replaces FIVE ~25 MPG vehicles with FIVE ~75 MPG vehicles saving 250 MPG.

 

[ehwatt]

While we are at it, why not also have a speed limit based on mpg. The higher the mileage the faster you get to drive. Say the Elios get 55mpg @ 100 mph. They will get a green, radar/laser reflective sticker on the nose while something else that gets 35 @ 85 has a yellow sticker and one that gets 24 @ 65 has a red one. With heavy fines for "sticker-switchers", of course. Seems fair to me.

 

[Ty]

It doesn't reward fuel efficiency. But with the addition of EV's on the market, that may no longer be possible.

As for rewarding weight reduction, that's EXACTLY what it does.

weight x (set distance) x (set price) = total tax.
reduce the weight by 10%, reduce the tax by 10%.

Oh, yeah. Oops. Hey, add miles driven in there somehow and it'll be better. Driving 200,000 a year uses more road than driving 2,000.

 

[Ty]

While we are at it, why not also have a speed limit based on mpg. The higher the mileage the faster you get to drive. Say the Elios get 55mpg @ 100 mph. They will get a green, radar/laser reflective sticker on the nose while something else that gets 35 @ 85 has a yellow sticker and one that gets 24 @ 65 has a red one. With heavy fines for "sticker-switchers", of course. Seems fair to me.

Speed should really be based on capabilities rather than mileage... I just can't see an electric bus being able to take the twisters at 90 while the Ferrarri has to slow to 50.

 

[ehwatt]

Speed should really be based on capabilities rather than mileage... I just can't see an electric bus being able to take the twisters at 90 while the Ferrarri has to slow to 50.

Well, I guess I omitted the part about "on interstate". I did think the "tongue-in-ckeek" part was obvious though. However, if the electric bus was built by Ferrari . . .

 

[johnsnownw]

I like these examples.

Case A: My F350 was 9,995 pounds.

Case B: My Prius is a PriusC, but I get 50 MPG.

Case C: What can I say. Electrics aren't financially viable for me and I don't think others should subsidize those who CAN afford them. I feel the same way about sports stadiums.

Case D: The vehicle that I have reserved AND which is the best choice soon to be available to reduce the human environmental impact on the planet.

One EV @ $34K replaces a 25 MPG vehicle saving 25 MPG.

Five Elios @ $6.8K or $34K total replaces FIVE ~25 MPG vehicles with FIVE ~75 MPG vehicles saving 250 MPG.

While I understand, and agree with your points, I'm not sure that Elio's will largely be replacing vehicles that normally get 25 MPG Hwy...simply because most vehicles at that efficiency are bought for their utility.

If I had to guess the Avg. ICE vehicle replaced by an Elio would mos likely be in the ~32 Combined MPG range, and an Avg. new cost of $23,000. There is also that the ~75 mpg Elio number is Hwy...and most often the combined number is used when comparing efficiency. The Elio would be around ~ 60 MPG.

Either way, I agree that the Elio is a very environmentally friendly vehicle...probably just not quite as environmentally friendly as your example. I would also say that "Case D" needs the word "new vehicle" attached to it. You can get used Leafs for around $10k, and many States in the US will return above 85MPG when factoring where the electricity is sourced.

 

[Rickb]

I like these examples.

Case A: My F350 was 9,995 pounds.

Case B: My Prius is a PriusC, but I get 50 MPG.

Case C: What can I say. Electrics aren't financially viable for me and I don't think others should subsidize those who CAN afford them. I feel the same way about sports stadiums.

Case D: The vehicle that I have reserved AND which is the best choice soon to be available to reduce the human environmental impact on the planet.

One EV @ $34K replaces a 25 MPG vehicle saving 25 MPG.

Five Elios @ $6.8K or $34K total replaces FIVE ~25 MPG vehicles with FIVE ~75 MPG vehicles saving 250 MPG.

EV tax credits seem less like a 'subsidy' and more like an 'investment' in the future of sustainable transportation. What if gas prices skyrocket, reserves diminish creating shortages and gas rationing? How many Elio's would be lined up at the gas pumps while EV owners are conveniently refueling from their garage outlets while they sleep or plugged into Tesla Superchargers (free of charge)? I like the idea of options. Don't put all the ICE in one bucket. We may breathe easier as a result.......literally. Frankly, encouraging new technology, new job markets, and stimulating economic development is what government should be subsidizing. By the way, EM will be subsidized to the max with the Caddo Parrish contracts economic stimulus package if EM holds up their end of the contracts obligations and provides the promised 1500 jobs. Also, the Elio will not meet the needs of many drivers just as EV's don't meet yours.

Please support and fair share the subsidies. Also, we should all pay a fair share in mileage taxes to build and maintain our roadways so we can drive and commute in the vehicle of our choice. Perhaps for many a primary ICE and an & SRK everyday electric or Elio. Go three wheels!

Note: What I don't like subsidizing is the 1% and OPEC.

 

[WilliamH]

EV tax credits seem less like a 'subsidy' and more like an 'investment' in the future of sustainable transportation. What if gas prices skyrocket, reserves diminish creating shortages and gas rationing? How many Elio's would be lined up at the gas pumps while EV owners are conveniently refueling from their garage outlets while they sleep or plugged into Tesla Superchargers (free of charge)? I like the idea of options. Don't put all the ICE in one bucket. We may breathe easier as a result.......literally. Frankly, encouraging new technology, new job markets, and stimulating economic development is what government should be subsidizing. By the way, EM will be subsidized to the max with the Caddo Parrish contracts economic stimulus package if EM holds up their end of the contracts obligations and provides the promised 1500 jobs. Also, the Elio will not meet the needs of many drivers just as EV's don't meet yours.

Please support and fair share the subsidies. Also, we should all pay a fair share in mileage taxes to build and maintain our roadways so we can drive and commute in the vehicle of our choice. Perhaps for many a primary ICE and an & SRK everyday electric or Elio. Go three wheels!

Note: What I don't like subsidizing is the 1% and OPEC.

An option is something that is a choice.
When I am supporting your option under penalty of law (tax) that is not an option to me.
When gas tax is being used to subsidize mass transit in the "Northeastern Corridor" that is not a benefit to people living in "fly over country" yet their money provides a subsidy to that mass transit.
And speaking of subsidy, why is highway gas tax being used to upgrade airports? Or subways?
Seems like us folks in "fly over country" are expected to subsidize a lot of things that have nothing to do with us.

 

[Rickb]

An option is something that is a choice.
When I am supporting your option under penalty of law (tax) that is not an option to me.
When gas tax is being used to subsidize mass transit in the "Northeastern Corridor" that is not a benefit to people living in "fly over country" yet their money provides a subsidy to that mass transit.
And speaking of subsidy, why is highway gas tax being used to upgrade airports? Or subways?
Seems like us folks in "fly over country" are expected to subsidize a lot of things that have nothing to do with us.

The option, in terms of new technology, has to be made available in order to make the choice. It's America we encourage and support one another's opportunity for choice. If the country's overall economy is strong we all benefit. Those that choose to drive sustainable electric vehicles when they become affordable to the masses provides you with indirect benefits by guaranteeing more fossil fuel for your ICE vehicle and cleaner air to breathe. You filling your gas tanks leaves more sustainable electricity for others. Balance and harmony prevails.