The Elio Automatic Transmission

[RKing]

A little Googlein. Is the AMT the one from the Celerio, or "like it" ? I was told Asin manual, and there is an Asin AMT same form (same cases?) as the manual. Below seems to indicate supply limitations ,at least in July. Italics mine...
Lots of good info coming from NC stop, thanks for passing along.

Celerio AMT
By: PTI | Updated: July 28, 2014 12:02 IST
"The company has been hampered by supply constraints of the AMT sourced from Italy's auto component major Magneti Marelli, which plans to shift its AMT production to MSI's supplier's park at Manesar in India in about a year's time"

 

[goofyone]

A little Googlein. Is the AMT the one from the Celerio, or "like it" ? I was told Asin manual, and there is an Asin AMT same form (same cases?) as the manual. Below seems to indicate supply limitations ,at least in July. Italics mine...
Lots of good info coming from NC stop, thanks for passing along.

Celerio AMT
By: PTI | Updated: July 28, 2014 12:02 IST
"The company has been hampered by supply constraints of the AMT sourced from Italy's auto component major Magneti Marelli, which plans to shift its AMT production to MSI's supplier's park at Manesar in India in about a year's time"

All I know is that earlier in the year Jerome told us all vehicles would have an Aisin 5-speed manual with the AMT orders fitted with the extra necessary components to turn it into automatic and referred us to the Celario as an example however I do not remember if he specifically told us they would use the same AMT or if that was simply an example of a vehicle outfitted with the same type of system.

A quick search says that Margneti Marelli has quite a number of locations in the USA, including both offices and production facilities. Of specific interest to us would be a 250,000 sq ft powertrain systems manufacturing facility located in Sanford, NC which could likely build their AMT units.

Of course the other issue is that none of this has ever been officially confirmed by Elio Motors so we must consider everything we know, even from reliable direct sources, to be subject to change.

 

[Dan Schafer]

I'd put an old cell phone in the Elio and track it with the cell towers! The car people need to put some kind of tracking device in every car they build! BUt then you know whats next... OMG THE will track my every move! (is that a helicopter... a black one) Just the paranoid will worry!

 

[Dan Schafer]

Hey Goofyone, I think the t-hitch idea is a great one! then we have to design a Elio trailer... so coool...

 

[karl]

I'd put an old cell phone in the Elio and track it with the cell towers! The car people need to put some kind of tracking device in every car they build! BUt then you know whats next... OMG THE will track my every move! (is that a helicopter... a black one) Just the paranoid will worry!

Just because your paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out to get you.

 

[goofyone]

Hey Goofyone, I think the t-hitch idea is a great one! then we have to design a Elio trailer... so coool...

I am thinking about something along these lines as they can easily be built yourself or this one is actually available at Harbor Freight for under $400:

http://www.harborfreight.com/600-lb-capacity-78-inch-tag-along-trailer-66771.html

This carrier is only three feet wide on this one which should minimize the aerodynamic impact of pulling a trailer and it weighs just under 150 lbs empty which I would estimate gives me about 100-150 pounds of useful payload capacity while also keeping the total weight down to a very safe level for good handling.

Some bigger wheels and tires than provided on this trailer would probably would be beneficial for extended touring.

The biggest question I have is trailer brakes as they could be really handy to help steady that single undriven rear tire while braking. If so some electric brakes could be fitted relatively easily and inexpensively to a basic trailer, likely for under $200 in parts on the trailer side then you would need a trailer brake controller and wiring on the tow vehicle side which could cost up to another $200.

I know a good deal about trailers from my business working on trailers however @JEBar worked in the RV field for years and likely has a lot more insight into this area than I do.

 

[JEBar]

I am thinking about something along these lines as they can easily be built yourself or this one is actually available at Harbor Freight for under $400:
View attachment 3800
http://www.harborfreight.com/600-lb-capacity-78-inch-tag-along-trailer-66771.html

This carrier is only three feet wide on this one which should minimize the aerodynamic impact of pulling a trailer and it weighs just under 150 lbs empty which I would estimate gives me about 100-150 pounds of useful payload capacity while also keeping the total weight down to a very safe level for good handling.

Some bigger wheels and tires than provided on this trailer would probably would be beneficial for extended touring.

The biggest question I have is trailer brakes as they could be really handy to help steady that single undriven rear tire while braking. If so some electric brakes could be fitted relatively easily and inexpensively to a basic trailer, likely for under $200 in parts on the trailer side then you would need a trailer brake controller and wiring on the tow vehicle side which could cost up to another $200.

I know a good deal about trailers from my business working on trailers however @JEBar worked in the RV field for years and likely has a lot more insight into this area than I do.

I'm unsure about the need for trailer brakes on such a light trailer .... if you put a 150 lb tool box in the truck, would you feel there is a need to beef up the OEM brakes ?? .... that said, having them couldn't hurt .... brake assemblies are available for small diameter rims, as an example the ones used on a popup campers .... while using lightweight metal is necessary, going too light can result in metal fatigue ....I'd project the highest possibility of metal fatigue resulting in frame failure would be where the spring hangers attach the leaf springs to the frame (that bit of wisdom comes from years of building pig cookers ) .... the larger the diameter of the tires, the fewer revolutions they make per mile .... the fewer the revolutions, the easier it is on the wheel bearings .... here again, folks haul jet ski trailers with small diameter tires all over the country .... it would be critical for the trailer to be balanced so what there is enough tongue weight to prevent swaying and not so much as to put to much weight on the suspension of the Elio

Jim

 

[goofyone]

I'm unsure about the need for trailer brakes on such a light trailer .... if you put a 150 lb tool box in the truck, would you feel there is a need to beef up the OEM brakes ?? .... that said, having them couldn't hurt .... brake assemblies are available for small diameter rims, as an example the ones used on a popup campers .... while using lightweight metal is necessary, going too light can result in metal fatigue ....I'd project the highest possibility of metal fatigue resulting in frame failure would be where the spring hangers attach the leaf springs to the frame (that bit of wisdom comes from years of building pig cookers ) .... the larger the diameter of the tires, the fewer revolutions they make per mile .... the fewer the revolutions, the easier it is on the wheel bearings .... here again, folks haul jet ski trailers with small diameter tires all over the country .... it would be critical for the trailer to be balanced so what there is enough tongue weight to prevent swaying and not so much as to put to much weight on the suspension of the Elio

Jim

The only reason I even mention trailer brakes is really because I have no real basis for understanding exactly what will happen to the stability of that single non-drive wheel in the rear of the Elio while towing. I have mostly used rear wheel drive vehicles for towing so the drive wheels are just forward of the trailer and can resist the trailer forces in lighter trailers even if they do not have brakes. Front wheel drive vehicles rarely tow anything heavy and have two rear wheels to assist in maintaining stability plus they naturally want to under-steer which when pulling a trailer can be a good thing. Motorcycles and trikes that are used for towing all have rear wheel drive which once again assists in maintaining positive control of the trailer. Of course all this assumes properly balanced and weighted trailers.

We know that when the center of gravity shifts towards the rear of a reverse trike, such as the Elio, this tends to induce over-steer in the vehicle, when the rear end wants to spin the vehicle around, which is not something you want to happen while pulling a trailer. With only one tire in the rear there is not a lot of rubber to maintain stability if this were to happen. Trailer brakes should theoretically be able to correct this issue if it really is an issue in the real world at all. This is just something that those of us who choose to tow will have to figure out in this new vehicle.

 

[JEBar]

The only reason I even mention trailer brakes is really because I have no real basis for understanding exactly what will happen to the stability of that single non-drive wheel in the rear of the Elio while towing. I have mostly used rear wheel drive vehicles for towing so the drive wheels are just forward of the trailer and can resist the trailer forces in lighter trailers even if they do not have brakes. Front wheel drive vehicles rarely tow anything heavy and have two rear wheels to assist in maintaining stability plus they naturally want to under-steer which when pulling a trailer can be a good thing. Motorcycles and trikes that are used for towing all have rear wheel drive which once again assists in maintaining positive control of the trailer. Of course all this assumes properly balanced and weighted trailers.

We know that when the center of gravity shifts towards the rear of a reverse trike, such as the Elio, this tends to induce over-steer in the vehicle, the rear end come wants to spin the vehicle around, which is not something you want to happen while pulling a trailer. With only one tire in the rear there is not a lot of rubber to maintain stability if this were to happen. Trailer brakes should theoretically be able to correct this issue if it really is an issue in the real world at all. This is just something that those of us who choose to tow will have to figure out in this new vehicle.

its reasonable to believe that the uncertainty of just how an Elio will handle the stresses you mention would prompt EM to not recommend towing with their trike .... proper use of trailer brakes an assist in overcoming a jackknife situation .... I have little doubt that it will take very long for numbers of folks to modify their Elio to tow a trailer and we will get some real world info .... as noted, I do agree that it will be important for the trailers to be well balanced/weighted

Jim

 

[RKing]

and Lite

Their position is very understandable, the validation of trailering capacity is a distraction to the (very extensive) task at hand, of getting a really cool comuter car into production in less than 12 months ! I will pull my Poke boat with mine, but I don't expect them to endorse it either