Legal: Motorcycle License And Helmet Laws

[Brainmatter]

I have been collecting information by state as it becomes available so that is why I ask. I have known about Washington and Oregon since January but other states have so successfully buried their information it is difficult to find it. That is why I ask. Z

I know all this has been covered many times before, but laws surrounding this type of vehicle need a lot of updating. Even in an 'easy' state like Minnesota where there are "no" helmet laws.

Here is the MN state law as it sits now. From the Minnesota Department of Public Safety:
https://dps.mn.gov/divisions/ots/mmsc/motorcycle-license/Pages/laws-regulations.aspx
Trike (3-wheel) and sidecar operators:
Must have a motorcycle instruction permit, motorcycle endorsement, or "also valid for 3 wheel motorcycle" under restrictions. 169.974 subd. 2 (a)

Thats as the law stands today. I would think it will be changed (if proposed) for an enclosed vehicle like the Elio.
The "also valid for 3 wheel" motorcycle endorsement is very easy to take and get but limits you to 3 wheeled bike operation only. The driving test is basically going around some cones and stopping. Similar to a scooter test, not a full fledged MC endorsement test. People riding Can-Am Spyders have no problem getting around the course.
But.. here is the tricky part... while under permit (written test only to get the permit) you are required to wear a helmet in MN. You are therefore required by law to wear the helmet while testing. So if you had just a normal DL and wanted to get the 3 wheel only endorsement, you'd have to wear a helmet to take the test, which could complicate the test and create unsafe coditions for driving to the test center. Once you have a full endorsement you are no longer required to wear a helmet in MN, but how do you legally get endorsed in something like the Elio? Seems easy, yet overly and unnecessarily complicated unless you already have an MC endorsement.

 

[raybonz]

CURRENT! -- http://bikertraining.net/ -- 2 days; $200......?? "6 week course"??; YOUR DMV is 'ill informed'...OR.... you didn't understand them!

I did the course in a weekend and got my motorcycle license at the end.. That was in 2002..

Ray

 

[AllIn5450]

Meh, I have a motorcycle endorsement already, and I have a helmet.
But I have no plans to wear it while in my Elio., LOL

 

[Elio Amazed]

Naturally I don't know all states, and I've only owned a motorcycle in 5 of them, but those have been fairly similar. I have my old bike and an old car, both worth essentially NOTHING. Liability insurance for the bike (with the recent increase) is about $300 per year. Liability insurance for the car (with a pristine driving history and age 40-something) is about $100 per month, ($1200 per year). Difference: $900 per year, and the only factor is vehicle classification, nothing to do with cost. Assuming a ten year life span for the vehicle that's $9000. More than the Elio costs! How it's classified DOES matter. I do agree though that registration cost will likely be about the same in most states.

I am just not understanding why you folks are paying so much for insurance.

2 motorcycles @ liability, pedestrian, underinsured and uninsured = $135/yr (total for both).
'03 Mustang @ liability, funeral benefit, key replacement,comprehensive and $1500 IN Customization = $437/yr.
'01 GMC 4WD Safari @ liability, funeral benefit, underinsured and uninsured = $327/yr.

Grand total = $899/yr.

I'm paying $600 a year less than you and insuring twice as many vehicles!

 

[Elio Amazed]

A hundred year-old statute that's been used to cover a few one-off's over the years versus real money to be charged on a full mass-production vehicle..... sorry if I'm a pessimist, but my money's on the greedy bastards.
I'm just trying to throw out a warning about giving up too much just to avoid a cycle endorsement. When laws are changed there are always 'unintended' consequences, usually written in by people with an agenda.
When this thing ends up costing just as much as my pickup to insure, it'll be just another example of other people's convenience deciding how MY money gets spent.

When posters were rejoicing about EM pushing for changes in state laws two weeks ago, my response was, "Be careful what you wish for."

 

[Rickb]

I fail to see why it needs be any more complicated than Washington's Licensing requirements: 3 wheel vehicle with a car like seat, seat belts, and a steering wheel.........no endorsement required.......a simple
addendum to the existing law. I emailed the question to Idaho's DMV and look forward to their response. Currently it looks like I would need an MC endorsement.

 

[goofyone]

I fail to see why it needs be any more complicated than Washington's Licensing requirements: 3 wheel vehicle with a car like seat, seat belts, and a steering wheel.........no endorsement required.......a simple
addendum to the existing law. I emailed the question to Idaho's DMV and look forward to their response. Currently it looks like I would need an MC endorsement.

It does not need to be any more complicated than you described but of course we are talking about the workings of government where even minor things manage to become big ordeals.

Most states where Elio Motors has managed to have legislation introduced in the legislature have passed them unanimously. The issues Elio Motors has had with the process have not been any challenges to the actual language but just politics as usual with some bills never getting serious consideration and a pair of bills which ended up being being vetoed or voted down due to unrelated amendments which were added to the bills.

 

[Edward]

I am just not understanding why you folks are paying so much for insurance.

2 motorcycles @ liability, pedestrian, underinsured and uninsured = $135/yr (total for both).
'03 Mustang @ liability, funeral benefit, key replacement,comprehensive and $1500 IN Customization = $437/yr.
'01 GMC 4WD Safari @ liability, funeral benefit, underinsured and uninsured = $327/yr.

Grand total = $899/yr.

I'm paying $600 a year less than you and insuring twice as many vehicles!

It's going to depend a lot on driving history and simply where in the country you are.I saved $600 per year simply by moving from NJ to Colorado.

 

[goofyone]

It's going to depend a lot on driving history and simply where in the country you are.I saved $600 per year simply by moving from NJ to Colorado.

This is very true as there are a lot of variables which go into what you pay for insurance. I once saved $200 a year when I moved from one county in Georgia to the next county over. At the time I was told I would have saved even more had I moved from one house to another house instead of into an apartment.

 

[Folks]

This is very true as there are a lot of variables which go into what you pay for insurance. I once saved $200 a year when I moved from one county in Georgia to the next county over. At the time I was told I would have saved even more had I moved from one house to another house instead of into an apartment.

Insurance companies use any data they find with a corollary to incidences of loss that a policy covers. (within the law that is). Unfortunately that leads to some associations of data that seem counter intuitive to us everyday folks. If per chance you are bald headed and toothless and you eat peanuts chances are that proves you sit on the front row of a strip show. In other words they live and die by statistics. Next time you catch someone trying to push a string rather than pull on it then you are probably dealing with a Senator or Congressman or maybe and insurance underwriter or perhaps the typical national media personality or anyone else who relies too much on teleprompters and statistics . Sound familiar? LOL Heck, one of em only needs a teleprompter to make a fool of us all. LOL