Why I'm All In

[goofyone]

For me it is like bidding on Ebay, I am watching the total reservation numbers and will place mine very close to 40,000 so I can still reserve $1,000 all-in and get the $6,800 price and the $500 discount. As I understand it (correct me if I am wrong) After the 40,000 reservations, the 40,001, even the $1,000 ones, will follow all the other "All-in" and "Refundable" reservations of all amounts inside the 40,000 reservations. Plus the Price may go up.

I am okay getting the Elio in early to mid 2016. As stated above, let all the bugs be worked out prior to my Elio being built. I expect to be somewhere around the 10,000 number.

Elio has never officially given a direct answer to what reservation numbers they intend to reach before cutting off the initial production numbers, and/or the bonus money, and/or raise the price. 40,000 has been mentioned by some people however the official EM line remains that at some point they will cut things off however they will give some warning before they do. This pretty much tells me that the $40K number is not a hard number and is subject to change so if you plan on timing your reservation your best bet is to pay closer attention to EM as the reservation numbers continues to rise.

 

[Rickb]

Plant cleanup, organization, and set up should be happening as we speak. The labor force has previous auto manufacturing experience in that same factory work environment on the same retrofitted equipment. The quality control, labor, and production bugs should be worked out between the time the first production Elio prototype is built and the 25 + prototypes for the road show and testing are built.

The earliest $1000 all in adopters should not have to worry about 'problems' or quality built Elios. When the line is ready, tweaked, and proven with the first production Elio rolling out and delivered to Paul Elio..............and he gives it a thumbs up go...........it's ready. If that's not the case then I'll wait for a Gen2 Elio and let you all have the fun of being test pilots.......as Pep Boys will be busy with warranty work. Elio can't afford problem vehicles and 1000's of unhappy early adopters.

I'm sure the following will ring true with all here who've ever worked in a large factory.

The very "first" Elios will probably be "made" (and put together) by the engineers and a handful of floor workers on the production equipment. No matter how well they come out, they will most likely be set aside, used for extensive testing (yes, even after all the prototype testing), with most scrapped to insure general quality standards. A handful will probably be archived. If I were P.E. and the crew, I would want to stash the first one or two that made it to the back door without falling apart for sentimental reasons.

It takes a while to become really good at any job. That includes administration, actual command and control, routines, floor worker's jobs, tool & die, CNC, general maintainance, system repair, suppliers supplying dead-on parts each and every time (exactly on time), and quality control methods and techniques. How do you "train" employees to do a job well enough to to reach peak, problem-free production, without having them do the actual specific job that's never been done before ? You're talking about co-ordinating 500-1500 people, hundreds of machines and countless supply chains from day one in the massive operation it's going to take to pop 500 and eventually 1000 of these (hopefully as perfect as you and I would like them to be) per day out the back door? Not to mention an "options upgrade" system and point-of-sale operation. I don't care how good of an engineer you are or how many good engineers you've got, it's impossible to foresee and account for all the variables and scenarios before the factory's throttle is pushed "balls to the wall". Thousands of variables and Murphy's law.

If Columbus waited until he and everyone else involved were sure that they'd thought of everything and gotten all the bugs out, someone else woud be credited in the history books for "discovering America". At some point, you've got to throw your arms up, throw the main breaker and learn the rest by trial and error.

Even though P.E. has learned how badly buerocracy wastes opportunity and money in the major auto mfg biz and has a credo that basically say's "I ain't going to be like 'them guys'", I'm sure he still knows that the real show will have normal growing pains. Things (Think, "Didn't see THAT one coming...") will come out of nowhere. I'm sure that they'll have some of the best on top of the overall troubleshooting process, but don't hold your breath for that 1000 quality units per day in the first month or two of "production".

All parties involved are highly experienced in the auto industry.....Paul Elio, the Team, off the shelf parts suppliers, and the labor force..............building a rather simple vehicle....there should be few issues with quality control on the early adopter $1000k all in Elios.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Let me try to clarify this a little.

Some have responded as if I said (in essence) that I believe that the first Elios sold may very well be lemons.
Never said that. Don't think that at all.
I will not, however, blindly rule out the possibility that there may be some issues that might not reveal themselves in the first 10,000 miles. The best and the brightest this world has to offer have "been there and done that" many, many times. Murphy's law is a reality. I'm all about reality.
Even if there are a few unforseen issues, I believe that EM will go above and beyond to correct those issues as quickly and smoothly as humanly possible.

My point was not about the quality of the first vehicles produced, it was about the rate at which quality vehicles will come off of the line during the first few months of production.

Hence my statement of, "but don't hold your breath for that 1000 quality units per day in the first month or two of 'production'".

 

[Elio Amazed]

Not intending to be at odds with what you said at all Rickb, but if I'm not mistaken, you insinuated that the work force is primarily going to be the same people that built the hummer. You did it twice. How do we know that the majority of those folks are going to want to work for such a drastic slash in pay as is necessary to try to keep our baby's price @ a mere $6800 ($6300 in our case) each? Isn't that particular community rather large? It would be nice to be able to offer a wage and benefits that will attract the very best of that Hummer workforce, but I don't think EM is not going to be able to offer anything close to the same ballpark and still meet it's commitment to it's customers. What's the old saying? Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea? The reality of it is that there just may be quite a mixed bag of people in that lunch room at break time. Again, not saying that it's impossible to build the best quality "simple" car of all time with the resources that will probably be in play. Quite the contrary, I believe it's entirely possible. I'm just trying to keep it real.

I would never make the mistake of calling any vehicle (especially one as different from the norm as this is) being built for the first time "rather simple" regardless of the amount of "off-the-shelf" parts being used. What I'm trying to say is I believe that while this may be perceived as a relatively simple vehicle, getting this entire thing to come together and run like greased clockwork is a massive undertaking. It's freekin' huge.

Again, don't get me wrong on all this.
Ultimately, all my logic and my faith tell me that I'm going to have one hell-of-an amazing machine.

 

[Rickb]

Not intending to be at odds with what you said at all Rickb, but if I'm not mistaken, you insinuated that the work force is primarily going to be the same people that built the hummer. You did it twice. How do we know that the majority of those folks are going to want to work for such a drastic slash in pay as is necessary to try to keep our baby's price @ a mere $6800 ($6300 in our case) each? Isn't that particular community rather large? It would be nice to be able to offer a wage and benefits that will attract the very best of that Hummer workforce, but I don't think EM is not going to be able to offer anything close to the same ballpark and still meet it's commitment to it's customers. What's the old saying? Between the Devil and the Deep Blue Sea? The reality of it is that there just may be quite a mixed bag of people in that lunch room at break time. Again, not saying that it's impossible to build the best quality "simple" car of all time with the resources that will probably be in play. Quite the contrary, I believe it's entirely possible. I'm just trying to keep it real.

I would never make the mistake of calling any vehicle (especially one as different from the norm as this is) being built for the first time "rather simple" regardless of the amount of "off-the-shelf" parts being used. What I'm trying to say is I believe that while this may be perceived as a relatively simple vehicle, getting this entire thing to come together and run like greased clockwork is a massive undertaking. It's freekin' huge.

Again, don't get me wrong on all this.
Ultimately, all my logic and my faith tell me that I'm going to have one hell-of-an amazing machine.

Yes, there will likely be problems.......and frankly the former Hummer workforce may not have been quality employees even with GM wages and benefits. I was giving them the benefit of wanting to go back to work in a somewhat depressed auto manufacturing economy. So we're not at odds. Huge yes but, freakin' huge would be a totally new startup company with no former auto industry connection.

 

[larryboy]

Well, the way I understand it is the reservations will stop at their 1 year capacity. So my interpretation is that the very last person in the reservation line will get one by Sept 2016 (if production starts in Sept 2015 and there are no delays). Anyone else have any thoughts?

Also, my thought is when it gets closer to the actual production date, and there are more "positive signs" and/or "assurances" that the Elio will be produced, I'll bump up my reservation to the $1,000 all-in. Mine right now is just the $100 all-in.

Some of us who are waiting to upgrade to 1K all in are waiting for reasons other than concerns about the possible failure of the project. I am trying to time my trip to pick up my Elio for after the gardening and hunting seasons are over but before winter sets in. I expect a nice scenic fall trip in my new car. I intend to upgrade within the week

 

[zelio]

Some of us who are waiting to upgrade to 1K all in are waiting for reasons other than concerns about the possible failure of the project. I am trying to time my trip to pick up my Elio for after the gardening and hunting seasons are over but before winter sets in. I expect a nice scenic fall trip in my new car. I intend to upgrade within the week

I hope you have better luck upgrading than I have. I started trying last Friday with no luck. It was after business hours so I waited until yesterday to try again. Still no luck so I called EM and had to leave a voice message. I also sent an email. I am waiting for a response so they can tell me what I am doing wrong. I read and did everything they said to but still no go. I look forward to hearing how your upgrade goes. :-) Z

 

[ClubJoe]

Everyone just keep the faith no matter what happens I'm sure Elio will not let any problems that may come up to be chalked up as just early production problems and brush them aside. They will repair anything that comes up and honor their warranty.

 

[eddie66]

Wow, there are some deep thinkers amoung us. My simple mind is just wondering if I'll have to go to Wally World and pick out a helmet to get my Elio through that little portion on that map of the,"show me" state of Mo. I have to drive through to get it back to Florida. Hope they clear up that little bit of legal annoyance before next year. I'll leave you guys to figure out the how and when. Way over my paygrade. I have to admit, it is a kick to read how involved people can get caught up in the wait.

 

[JEBar]

the work force is primarily going to be the same people that built the hummer. .... How do we know that the majority of those folks are going to want to work for such a drastic slash in pay as is necessary to try to keep our baby's price @ a mere $6800 ($6300 in our case) each?

reading ongoing comments about the factory workforce consisting primarily of former GM employees, I can't help but wonder about this as well .... personally, I'd rather have a job as to have no job but I can see folks who have had to take a major cut in pay and possibly benefits not being highly motivated .... I'd guess that (at least in the beginning) the workforce will be small enough to where management can monitor it closely .... with the exception of some positions which require extensive training, I'd tend to believe Elio Motors might be better off hiring folks who want to work and train them as needed .... folks who come in with bad habits already established can be hard to retrain

Jim