Exciting News - Sec Resubmission

[Rickb]

Q2 2017............if funding is secured and milestones are hit and on target over the next 15 month schedule and I have some recent doubt about the P5 being done on time. Because crap happens and has happened in the past, 2018-19 is more realistic. Is another contract extension on the manufacturing plant/jand promised jobs still on the table for that time frame?

This latest delay is not the fault of the DOE' s cautious ATVM loan approval process, but rather the reason why the ATVM loan has not been approved. They are waiting on EM's demonstration of claims. So am I.

It appears to be a much longer wait and I'll be forced to buy something else by that time. Good luck out there!

 

[Rickb]

Some small percentage of the time you're right. But most of the time civil servants fall into two groups: the people who want to do a good job and are stifled by the massive and complicated nature of their own organizational culture, and a smaller number who game the system for their own benefit -- "mandarins" as the Brits call them. Those are your "baddies"

I am qualified to make these comments after surviving a 15-month consulting contract with major players at the IRS.

The rest of the time your hostility towards gov't workers is misplaced. The system itself was derived 300 years ago from the British system, which was EXTREMELY political. We have made it worse by making it extremely difficult to fire gov't employees, so the bad ones just get shifted around or promoted out of someone's hair. But it's the system as a whole that's largely at fault. But it does accomplish much, however flawed.
Regarding Elio and the ATVM, requiring Elio to demonstrate their claims is entirely reasonable. DOE has been burned twice, and they don't want to get burned again. Would you?

Multiple likes for your shared experience and wisdom.

 

[WilliamH]

Some small percentage of the time you're right. But most of the time civil servants fall into two groups: the people who want to do a good job and are stifled by the massive and complicated nature of their own organizational culture, and a smaller number who game the system for their own benefit -- "mandarins" as the Brits call them. Those are your "baddies"

I am qualified to make these comments after surviving a 15-month consulting contract with major players at the IRS.

The rest of the time your hostility towards gov't workers is misplaced. The system itself was derived 300 years ago from the British system, which was EXTREMELY political. We have made it worse by making it extremely difficult to fire gov't employees, so the bad ones just get shifted around or promoted out of someone's hair. But it's the system as a whole that's largely at fault. But it does accomplish much, however flawed.
Regarding Elio and the ATVM, requiring Elio to demonstrate their claims is entirely reasonable. DOE has been burned twice, and they don't want to get burned again. Would you?

They were burned because they went with the technology that was popular with the administration. Mostly untested, bleeding edge and with no history. (Incidentally, Fisker and Solyndra were not the only failures. Just the major ones) Elio, on the other hand, is not leading edge. It is technology that is well understood. Just refinements on existing technology. And unfortunately technology that is not popular in Washington.

As far as your "qualifications", prior to retiring I worked for what was the largest company in the US. Until Bobby Kennedy and Judge Green destroyed it, which may explain my hostility toward Washington. It also explains my hostility toward bureaucracies. The major rules in any bureaucracy are:
1) You can never get in trouble for not making a decision.
2) A bad decision is OK if the boss agrees.
3) When in doubt say you need more time to study it.

Did they require Ford to do proof of concept on the Ecoboost before they they gave that ATVM loan?

 

[Sethodine]

Perhaps the solution to all these financial hurdles could be CAFE credit qualification? What if we mounted a letter-writing campaign to our senators/representatives? Using more than just the Elio as an example, the "Similar Vehicles" page shows quite a variety of EV and ICE autocycles that eco-concious liberals and fiscally-minded conservatives can really get behind. Heck, just the two sides working together on something in DC would be a political incentive to pass a bill classifying autocycles as automobiles.

 

[Rickb]

Perhaps the solution to all these financial hurdles could be CAFE credit qualification? What if we mounted a letter-writing campaign to our senators/representatives? Using more than just the Elio as an example, the "Similar Vehicles" page shows quite a variety of EV and ICE autocycles that eco-concious liberals and fiscally-minded conservatives can really get behind. Heck, just the two sides working together on something in DC would be a political incentive to pass a bill classifying autocycles as automobiles.

A motorcycle classified vehicle or a motorcycle disguised as an autocycle should not qualify for CAFE credits. Defeats the purpose of the mandated higher MPG requirements set for AUTO manufactures cars and trucks. EM should be able to make a fair profit on the vehicles they manufacture using off the shelf parts and current technology in a different package. AUTO manufacturers need to actually build higher MPG cars/trucks or buy credits from other AUTO manufacturers that choose to do so, not buy credits from a MOTORCYCLE manufacturer. Harley Davidson get in line? Both sides working together?

CAFE credits would not remove any hurdles or solve EM's immediate financial needs to actually manufacture the Elio.

 

[slinches]

Don't confuse technical classification with reality. The definition of a motorcycle as anything with less than four wheels is completely arbitrary. How is an Elio, in design and intended use, not a car? It has all of the expected attributes of a modern car, just with one less wheel.

With that in mind, the Elio meets the definition of the high mileage cars that CAFE legislation was designed to promote. I don't see why an extension to cover it wouldn't be considered.

 

[Rickb]

I'm not confused. In reality EM has to build their motorcycle, pass legislation to classify autocycles, and change the CAFE credit ruling to include autocycles. The Elio will have a motorcycle VIN and will be registered and licensed as a motorcycle with an autocycle sub-classification in many States waiving the MC endorsement and helmet requirements.

Don't be confused, in reality a new CAFE ruling would only put dollars into EM's pockets allowing some AUTO manufacturers to purchase those credits and continue to build lower MPG cars and trucks. I don't believe that is the purpose of CAFE as it relates mandating higher MPG requirements and develop alternative energy cars and trucks.

I respect the fact that you do see some benefit to a potential change.

 

[cantwait]

Elio's idea seems to have been based predominantly upon the fact that 3-wheelers abide in a regulatory limbo between motorcycles and automobiles.

All Elio has to do is to put two narrow-track wheels on the rear, and they have a "car". This would bypass all the motorcycle requirements, and would instantly be eligible for CAFE credits. On the surface, that would seem easier than all the "autocycle" legislative effort with the states, the proposed Vitter legislation, and the as yet unstarted CAFE legislative changes.

The fact that they haven't added the fourth wheel indicates that they must believe that the benefits do not outweigh the costs.

 

[toxotes]

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
- Hamlet

 

[cantwait]

That's glass half-empty. Think of dreaming of a 2017 delivery date as a pleasant surprise versus a 2018 date!

This is the first time we have some mileposts to see how far along the road we are. Instead of saying "are we there yet", we can look out the window and see how far we've come, and what should be coming up next.

It will take a little time for the SEC to process the resubmission, but the changes were pretty small. It may be possible that the offering will start shortly after the LA auto show, or at least by the end of the year. From there on out, it will be easy to keep up with the progress by watching our new "map".