Metal...body?

[NSTG8R]

Putting aside any loss of fuel efficiency, wouldn't a full metal body be safer then having composite panels? I don't really have an opinion as to a preferred material for the Elio. Nor do I have much experience with it. Only owned 3 vehicles and the only one that (I think) had a metal body was a Subaru Brat pickup.

IMHO...With the 'apparent' stoutness of the Elio unibody/chassis just by looking at their E-model build pics, I think that metal outer body panels could make the vehicle too rigid, defeating the crumple zones ability to slow an impact to survivable levels.

...But it's really friggin' early in the morning, and I haven't got my first cup of coffee down yet.

 

[Frim]

My

Putting aside any loss of fuel efficiency, wouldn't a full metal body be safer then having composite panels? I don't really have an opinion as to a preferred material for the Elio. Nor do I have much experience with it. Only owned 3 vehicles and the only one that (I think) had a metal body was a Subaru Brat pickup.

My Brat was the only car I ever sold because I was afraid that it would not wear out. It wouldn't die of natural causes.

 

[pistonboy]

I the latest SEC filing, page 4

http://pdf.secdatabase.com/141/0001214659-16-012757.pdf

it says:

"Spaceframe and Body Panel Design. The Elio space frame / body panel design architecture has been morphed into a traditional
unibody design in the latest iteration. The benefits of doing so have been the elimination of MIG welding in the plant, improved
fit & finish and quality and better crash safety performance. Off gasses produced during MIG welding are considered bad from an
environmental and occupational safety perspective. This change will keep the plant on the path of being green and safe for our operators
assembling the vehicle.With the new design we can hold tolerances better and improve the design for gaps and fit conditions. In addition,
with one of the recent runs, we have shown improvement to the simulated crash performance. Finally, the unibody architecture has
resulted in lowering the weight and costs and will improve Elio Motors' ability to produce at a faster pace which in turn improves uptime
at the plant.
This frame and body design contrasts with the unibody frame design, common in the market today and which requires sheet
metal stampings to serve as both the safety structure and aesthetic surface for a typical car design. This frame technology is not unique to
the Elio – spaceframes for automotive applications have been used frequently for decades in the production of motorcycles and racecars,
and the spaceframe and body panel architecture are currently utilized in the production of autos ranging from exotic sports cars to
more modestly priced models. The advantages of this frame and panel design are the far greater utilization of materials in production,
decreased tooling costs, and greater potential for left hand to right hand commonality. As well, by decoupling the aesthetic and functional
aspects of the frame, Elio Motors has greater freedom in design of the spaceframe itself."

EKH touched on this earlier and I found it interesting.

In the first paragraph, it says " The Elio space frame / body panel design architecture has been morphed into a traditional unibody design in the latest iteration.." This makes it sound like metal spaceframe and metal body panels.

I do not think the second paragraph is well written. I get the impression the spaceframe has become stamped metal and not welded tubes. I get the impression the body panels are not necessarily metal.

The picture at the top is of the E1 spaceframe which is stamped metal. I thought traditional unibody designs welded structural parts and body panel parts together into one piece. Here, the spaceframe (made of stamped steel) is separate and distinct. I get the impression the original design of metal spaceframe and composite body panels is still planned, but now the spaceframe is stamped, not welded tubes.

Edit: the paragraphs quoted are on page 4 of the document.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

View attachment 10899
.

I can't be the only one that's happy with 5 Elios in the same picture.

 

[Sethodine]

View attachment 10899

The picture at the top is of the E1 spaceframe which is stamped metal. I thought traditional unibody designs welded structural parts and body panel parts together into one piece. Here, the spaceframe (made of stamped steel) is separate and distinct. I get the impression the original design of metal spaceframe and composite body panels is still planned, but now the spaceframe is stamped, not welded tubes.

The paragraph is a bit convoluted. I suspect that the same document was edited, but the editor also mixed up the terms in a few sentences. Essentially, the Elio is a frame-with-panel design that utilizes a stamped unibody frame. Think of it this way: cars are built with both a body and a frame. The "frame" holds all the important bits, and the "body" is the aesthetic bit.

• Modern pickup trucks are a solid frame with a stamped body placed on top.
• Modern cars are full unibody construction, where the frame and the body are all a single unit.
• Race cars are space frames with panels bolted on to form the body. (space frame = welded tube frame)
• The Elio is a stamped unibody frame with panels bolted on to form the body.

EM is explaining to the SEC that this latest design change is different, but not completely unheard-of in auto manufacturing. Here is a picture of the frame to a Pontiac Fiero, which also used a stamped unibody frame-with-panel construction. Aside from the front fenders, you can see the similarities to the Elio, yes?

Now, contrast this with a "Space frame", which as I said is a welded tube design.

They also explain that by using a stamped unibody frame-with-panel design, they can be 1) greener 2) safer 3) cheaper 4) lighter. All of these factor into expenses, be it on equipment costs, insurance for work hazards (MIG gasses), etc. They also imply that it will speed up production, which could equal more vehicles produced per-year than previous estimates.

Sidenote: saying "Greener, Safer, Cheaper, Lighter" made me think of a song

 

[pistonboy]

The paragraph is a bit convoluted. I suspect that the same document was edited, but the editor also mixed up the terms in a few sentences. Essentially, the Elio is a frame-with-panel design that utilizes a stamped unibody frame. Think of it this way: cars are built with both a body and a frame. The "frame" holds all the important bits, and the "body" is the aesthetic bit.

• Modern pickup trucks are a solid frame with a stamped body placed on top.
• Modern cars are full unibody construction, where the frame and the body are all a single unit.
• Race cars are space frames with panels bolted on to form the body. (space frame = welded tube frame)
• The Elio is a stamped unibody frame with panels bolted on to form the body.

EM is explaining to the SEC that this latest design change is different, but not completely unheard-of in auto manufacturing. Here is a picture of the frame to a Pontiac Fiero, which also used a stamped unibody frame-with-panel construction. Aside from the front fenders, you can see the similarities to the Elio, yes?

Now, contrast this with a "Space frame", which as I said is a welded tube design.

They also explain that by using a stamped unibody frame-with-panel design, they can be 1) greener 2) safer 3) cheaper 4) lighter. All of these factor into expenses, be it on equipment costs, insurance for work hazards (MIG gasses), etc. They also imply that it will speed up production, which could equal more vehicles produced per-year than previous estimates.

Sidenote: saying "Greener, Safer, Cheaper, Lighter" made me think of a song

Do you believe I am ignorant and must have my own post explained to me? Go back and check my post. It is an in-depth analysis, citing my sources, quoting the particulars, and explaining how I arrived at my conclusion. My own conclusion is what you are explaining to me as if I never heard of it.

You have quoted only two sentences from a post that is almost a full page long.

Perhaps I am not forceful enough. I use phrases like “I get the impression”.

The problem is that I am educated and do not believe I know everything. That is why I use those phrases.

 

[WilliamH]

Do you believe I am ignorant and must have my own post explained to me? Go back and check my post. It is an in-depth analysis, citing my sources, quoting the particulars, and explaining how I arrived at my conclusion. My own conclusion is what you are explaining to me as if I never heard of it.

You have quoted only two sentences from a post that is almost a full page long.

Perhaps I am not forceful enough. I use phrases like “I get the impression”.

The problem is that I am educated and do not believe I know everything. That is why I use those phrases.

No offense intended, but you use way too many words to convey way too little information and your formatting only adds to the confusion.
Kind off reminds me of the PhDs that used to work for me at Bell labs. I was never certain whether they were trying to blind me with their brilliance or baffle me with their Bull S...

 

[Stephen Workman]

Fella's...EASY...let's all tone it down a bit.


Comment added by moderator : absolutely agree

 

[floydv]

They can make the front fenders, fascia, and hood out of metal if they want. I want everything else aft of that to be made out of plastic for dent resistance.

Which reminds me: Since EM has stated its intent to make the Elio meet automotive safety standards, does that mean it will be designed to meet low speed bumper standards? (I know, I know: Ask EM.)

 

[Sethodine]

Do you believe I am ignorant and must have my own post explained to me? Go back and check my post. It is an in-depth analysis, citing my sources, quoting the particulars, and explaining how I arrived at my conclusion. My own conclusion is what you are explaining to me as if I never heard of it.

You have quoted only two sentences from a post that is almost a full page long.

Perhaps I am not forceful enough. I use phrases like “I get the impression”.

The problem is that I am educated and do not believe I know everything. That is why I use those phrases.

No, I do not believe you are ignorant. I was merely discussing the same topic as you. Just because I quote you does not mean I am "answering" you. This message board is a discussion which includes many people, and I was expanding on what you said. We were all discussing this document, and you brought up a particularly confusing passage. I felt this passage required further explanation, so I dug into it and spelled it out for everybody.

If I thought that you were some poor ignorant sap who needed something explained to him, then I would have done so in a private message so that you could save face in the public discussion.