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Atvm Loan Is Not Completely Dead

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According to the website for ATVM, (up to date as of 2017) they say:

To date, the program has supported the production of more than 4 million advanced technology vehicles and has $17.7 billion in remaining loan authority.

Wonder how they spend their day, working for the American taxpayer.
 

RSchneider

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According to the website for ATVM, (up to date as of 2017) they say:

To date, the program has supported the production of more than 4 million advanced technology vehicles and has $17.7 billion in remaining loan authority.

Wonder how they spend their day, working for the American taxpayer.
With the DOE, then it's a few people and they typically oversee a few other programs. Those probably loan out or give out grants. Having ATVM on their list makes the department look good. Who would not want part of a program where you do nothing but get paid? It's like leasing land and then let someone build on it. You collect the checks and then spend about 5 minutes each year paying whatever applicable taxes that are due. Like a car or mortgage, in this day of age it's all done electronic. They only time it seems to be a any work for anyone is when you pay them off. Getting a deed/title seems to take 6-8 weeks and then that check which has a few grand left in it from escrow seems to take the same 6-8 weeks and for some reason it needs to be a paper check as opposed to just wiring you the money back into the account that you have used for 20 years to automatically pay the loan off. That would take 2 minutes for one person, yet it never happens.

So you can see, if it's a government job, it's even worse than in industry.

Hopefully they keep the ATVM loan going for a while, as if it got cancelled, this thread would die off and we'd be stuck with talking about stock, Eliocoin and posting 2-3 year old blogs.
 

Samalross

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When Paul and company calculated the cost of materials, rent, personnel, warranty, stores, etc., they came up with a cost per vehicle when built at the rate of 250,000 per year. The used that cost plus $1,000 to set the price. They'll profit another 20% on accessories. You were correct on those two items. They'll not do as well if production was cut in half but they probably won't be as bad off as Tesla when it comes to per vehicle losses. Not by a long shot.

Tesla delivered around 95,356 of its cars to customers in the second quarter of 2019.
Tesla lost $408,000,000 in the second quarter of 2019.
That means that Tesla, as a company, lost $4,278 per vehicle.

Now, that isn't bad considering all the expansion and building that Tesla has been doing. They are setting the groundwork for future profitability. Elio won't have the advantage of having people constantly injecting money into their endeavor. Tesla has managed to operate with a loss for years. However, Tesla, is kind of like Apple in how they are operating.

Back in 2007, the cell phone market was dominated by Nokia with 435 million units followed by Motorola with 164 million units. Apple released the first iPhone that year but it sold fewer than 4 million units. Now, Apple makes about 20% of all cell phones and almost all the profit... Tesla could do that when other manufacturers try to ramp up electric vehicles only to find there isn't enough battery capacity in the world to let them expand. Guess who will have all the batteries they need. That's right - Tesla!

What does this have to do with Elio? Not much. Sorry about the rambling. I suppose those old timers on this site know this already.
Without rambling there would not be much to read. Keep it up.
 

Ty

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This eve-of-the-recession-era law probably has mostly paper authority.

The ATVM website and a few staffers to run it and process loan requests are probably paid for.

The funds are the big hurdle. There's just no way there's 17.7 billion sitting in a vault somewhere.

From Wikipedia: "The loan program was authorized under section 136 of the Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007, which provided the program with $25 billion in loan authority, supported by a $7.5 billion appropriation to fund the credit subsidy, or the 30% risk profile expected for projects of this type."

The auto industry is saved. The economy has recovered from recession. All they have to do to avoid raising the issue of pulling DOE funds away from other projects is not approve any new loans. They've already spent 900 million more than was actually appropriated.

Most of this is "Loan Guarantees" which doesn't necessarily require there to be actual cash to back them up... The Government way is to write checks that nobody has to cash...
 

RSchneider

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A few things to remember. The $531M that Elio calculated back in 2016 is not the same as 2019. Inflation exists and Paul can't keep it from happening. So, it's been 3 years since that update and then in September we learned that amount was to be $120M less. So take $531M and subtract $120M then add inflation for today and you get $438M is needed. Then add the $7.5M fine along with that other fine and missed back payments on the equipment loan and lease payments you are at a conservative $448M. Since Elio asked for $185M back in 2014 when the applied for the ATVM loan the second time (with 2009 being the first ATVM loan application), that now needs to be changed to $200M today. Now with the updated numbers, Elio only needs an additional $248M to get to production assuming they got all of the money today. Plus you need to remember, the ATVM loan is only for outfitting the factory, thus it's only pad out on a need basis. That would inevitably mean they need to add $5M into the loan asking amount (a total of $205M) just to cover the future inflation for all of that equipment and engineering for the plant. I just wonder if Hari is back on payroll to update and keep this ATVM loan going because he made over $100K to keep it going before he went off to do his new company.
 

RSchneider

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Anyone important enough to be in charge of this dead program which distributed tens of billions probably isn't going to care about a startup needing a few tens of millions.

Even if it didn't all happen a decade ago to stave off a recession and auto industry bankruptcy by pumping cash into the economy.
Remember, not just Elio but a bunch of other companies.

One list:
https://lincolnparishnewsonline.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/atvm-loansfoia.pdf
Another list (you can download it and see the Elio Motors #1 ATVM loan for $260M back in December 2009).
https://www.scribd.com/doc/145484203/HQ-2013-00911-F-George-List-of-Loans

So, Elio motors is not the only one and when you look at the lists, you had about 130 companies (many that are legit from a list around 2010) that applied for the loan and never got it. So, you have 5 out of 130 that got the loan, with the last one in 2011. Not good odds on getting one. Braidy wants a $800M loan but I bet that since it's been over a year with zero information, they ain't getting it. This is an existing company that has been around for a while.

In the end Elio applied twice never got it. The former COO and current Board member (Hari) applied twice while he worked for V-Vehicle/Next Autoworks and they never got it. It's safe to say, they (Elio) bet on the wrong horse and thus why never mention it any more. Elio has moved on because they know like the rest, you will go out of business as a startup if you rely on that loan. Elio is still in business and thus they seen the trend a long time ago. I suspect Hari determined they need to go elsewhere (due to his vast experience) and thus Elio has a new plan for fundraising (Eliocoin).

I suspect it's just a few fans that have hope even though Elio gave up on it and have moved on.
 

RSchneider

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Sure, but only Vehicle Production Group got a small, $50 million loan in our price range, and that's when the DOE had already-appropriated funds at the ready.

Now that there is no need to save automakers and stave off recession, congress members will just say "why don't you get your own funding like other startups have to? Congress is not here to provide for new companies. The dire need of the early recession era has passed."
VPG went belly up too. Luckily AM General bought them and then used their own money to get them back into business. It shows that Elio has found out to move on from the ATVM loan and go with investors. Elio did admit they didn't really need the ATVM loan anyway. It shows because if they really needed it, they would have been out of business a few years ago. Think about it, Carbon Motors had a massive following, a plant in Indiana, a working prototype and a complete ready to install fully developed and certified driveline from BMW. Yet got rejected for the ATVM loan for $310M. When that was a guaranteed success of a business plan and ATVM told them no, then Elio found out that they didn't have a chance and moved to greener pastures.

I have no idea why you think it was Elio themselves was the problem with their ATVM loan when so many other shoe in programs were rejected too. If Elio said the needed $310M, it would have not made a difference. We really need to talk about Eliocoin as that's the best chance for now. ATVM loan is dead.
 

Samuel Gompers

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Mmmm. Elio Motors has been out of business for a long time now. It is nothing more than a shell, it is not a business. No matter how many times the horse gets hit, it's not getting up again. She's dead, Jim.
 

RSchneider

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Mmmm. Elio Motors has been out of business for a long time now. It is nothing more than a shell, it is not a business. No matter how many times the horse gets hit, it's not getting up again. She's dead, Jim.
Elio Motors is still in business. They are still doing the blog and the website is still up. Plus no announcement that they went out of business. At this point, you maybe missed my previous posts but Elio has at least 10 years of doing what they are doing now before they will have the decision of either closing up shop or making a product.
 
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