I Am Not Done Believing.

[Watashiwah]

That entire Elgin dash fiasco shoulda ‘sounded the alarm’ that business sense wasn’t Paul’s ‘long suit.’ Between that and commissioning a new engine it’s pretty clear that ego was a big driver. It’s not readily clear to me that Paul has engineering chops either. I think we can all agree that Hari sure has the marketing of fund raising genes, tho.

 

[Elio Amazed]

That entire Elgin dash fiasco shoulda ‘sounded the alarm’ that business sense wasn’t Paul’s ‘long suit.’ Between that and commissioning a new engine it’s pretty clear that ego was a big driver. It’s not readily clear to me that Paul has engineering chops either. I think we can all agree that Hari sure has the marketing of fund raising genes, tho.

Yeah. Like a cockroach surviving, and prospering from, one self-created nuclear blast after another.

 

[LillyMayPatterson #1685 & #5648]

Yeah, There has been plenty of 'mistakes', the dash board, the TV commercials, getting involved with that coin operation (I hope they all go to jail) but still yet I think they might pull this through. NUCLEAR BLAST ! I didn't know about that one, lol.

 

[LillyMayPatterson #1685 & #5648]

Yeah, There has been plenty of 'mistakes', the dash board, the TV commercials, getting involved with that coin operation (I hope they all go to jail) but still yet I think they might pull this through. NUCLEAR BLAST ! I didn't know about that one, lol.

The 'radio silents' is killing me.

 

[RSchneider]

That entire Elgin dash fiasco shoulda ‘sounded the alarm’ that business sense wasn’t Paul’s ‘long suit.’ Between that and commissioning a new engine it’s pretty clear that ego was a big driver. It’s not readily clear to me that Paul has engineering chops either. I think we can all agree that Hari sure has the marketing of fund raising genes, tho.

Actually the chassis was the biggest problem, not the engine or dash. From 2008-mid 2016, it was all tube frame and plastic body. Then all of a sudden, unibody and steel panels. All of this while they owned a massive steel stamping operation in Shreveport yet were not going to use it? Instead, go with a much more expensive way of chassis construction (especially when you want to make it like a regular enclosed car) and a body panel system that is for a Corvette and nothing else on the market. Coincidentally, 2016 was the year they spent the most on R&D ($26M out of a total of $62M over all of the other years). It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they spent the bulk of that R&D for that year on the chassis and body redesign. Then to redesign everything else to make it fit on that style of construction.

So yes, the motor and dash were warning signs but the chassis was a massive red flag and yet nobody seems to mention it. I will chalk that up to people being naive and just looking at the shiny objects and blaming that. Thing is, they never even made a steel body but just made the fiberglass body work on two of the unibody chassis'. I suspect the same for interior. Even the e series is not up to date to the CAD screen captures they showed us later. For example, the exhaust and battery location. I'm going to guess, lots was blown in 2016 on CAD work to design a virtual product but they only got to the chassis for a real tactile object.

Again, they still claim to have to spend another $85M on R&D all while only spending $62M to date. At this point, they might as well take the existing silhouette and make it an EV. Start with just two front wheel hub motors (forget the real wheel until much later). Make a skateboard type chassis (to get the most real estate on the footprint to fill with batteries). Make sure it has a good 400 mile range (not advertise 400 miles but it's actually 200 if you want to use it on the highway). Be up front on the specs, not best case scenario. If you want to make people believe in you, real world specs better than what you report. Then you get a massive following. Then build it with no Elio My Way (just make every one of them the same except for color), no company stores and make the service open to anyone (work with companies like Snap On and parts warehouses to allow any shop to have instant access to the repair procedures and parts). Have all product shipped to a few distribution centers then they get a final distance shipped with a carrier. Allow a cloud reporting system where you are up to date on what's going on and thus service an maintenance will become easy.

As of now, the existing Elio model will never work. No investment and it's destined to fail with the way Paul is presenting it.

 

[LillyMayPatterson #1685 & #5648]

I just seen this. When did elio move to Colorado? Elio Motors will have no obligations with respect to such submissions and Elio Motors will be free to copy, disclose, distribute, incorporate and otherwise use any such submission for any and all commercial or non-commercial purposes. Choice of Law; Jurisdiction. Elio Motors administers this Site from its offices in Denver, Colorado, USA.

 

[Rickb]

EM = Elio Marketing. Paul led a successful marketing campaign and made a buttload of money. I give him credit due.
Happy Holidays to all the remaining hopeful Elio Owners Forum members and Admins.

...............or doors for my Arcimoto.

 

[Watashiwah]

“Again, they still claim to have to spend another $85M on R&D all while only spending $62M to date.”

————————————-
Remember, whatever that bloated number is, it was paid to Paul and Hari’s ‘engineering’ company, ESG Engineering. The more money they ‘lost,’ misspent, or can’t account for, the more money that went into their pockets. Funny how that worked.

 

[RSchneider]

“Again, they still claim to have to spend another $85M on R&D all while only spending $62M to date.”

————————————-
Remember, whatever that bloated number is, it was paid to Paul and Hari’s ‘engineering’ company, ESG Engineering. The more money they ‘lost,’ misspent, or can’t account for, the more money that went into their pockets. Funny how that worked.

When it comes to the chassis, this is what Elio had to say up to 7/16/2016 in their SEC filings:

Spaceframe and Body Panel Design. The Elio is designed upon a spaceframe chassis, which utilizes a set of tubular steel struts, custom fitted and arranged in straight or curved geometric patterns for shape and/or strength. Optimally positioned, the struts will promote the greatest rigidity in structure for three-dimensional load-bearing points. By tailoring the spaceframe construction with the use of advanced high strength steels, the result is less weight and lower costs compared to the use of other expensive materials, such as aluminum and carbon fiber. The Elio’s body panels, which have no structural function, are affixed to the spaceframe to add the aesthetic facets to the vehicle, and are made of sheet molding composite. Composite panels result in a lighter weight, dent-resistant structure, as compared to steel body panels. In addition, the use of composite panels can reduce repair costs, as it facilities a “replacement” strategy rather than a “repair” strategy. In-mold reinforcements positioned within the panels help to further reduce tooling costs.

This frame and body design contrasts with the unibody frame design, common in the market today and which requires sheet metal stampings to serve as both the safety structure and aesthetic surface for a typical car design. This frame technology is not unique to the Elio – spaceframes for automotive applications have been used frequently for decades in the production of motorcycles and racecars, and the spaceframe and body panel architecture are currently utilized in the production of autos ranging from exotic sports cars to more modestly priced models. The advantages of this frame and panel design are the far greater utilization of materials in production, decreased tooling costs, and greater potential for left hand to right hand commonality. As well, by decoupling the aesthetic and functional aspects of the frame, Elio Motors has greater freedom in design of the spaceframe itself.

Then it changes to this:

Unibody and Body Panel Design . The Elio has gone through numerous changes and the design has been adapted to a unibody design. The unibody provides a reduction in weight, improved manufacturability at high volume and improved safety by elimination of fumes during the MIG (metal inert gas) welding process. Unibody also helps with the fit and finish of the vehicle by providing tighter tolerances. This change also allows for the use of steel panels for the outer body. The combination of unibody design and steel outer panels will improved the fit and finish and provide higher volume level than composite panels. With the new metals for the outer body, we are able to lower the piece price of the components, lower tooling costs, improve cycle time, design to tighter tolerances, improve crashworthiness and have a better overall product. Also, the change reduces the use of adhesives in the plant, which are volatile and a safety concern.

As you can see, this was a major change and they had planned for a long time (7 years) to not use Unibody and steel panels. Even explaining as to why their method (space frame and composite panels) was a better choice. This change came at the time where they spent the most money on R&D, thus draining the funding to almost nothing.

 

[Ray O]

That's right, I am not done believing in the elio. It is very disappointing to see the elio home page is not being maintained but 11-20-2020 was a very special day. I had a bid to sell 10 stocks for 99 cents on the board for months. I kept renewing it. It served well as a personal alert. I watched that Friday, as huge volume buys come in with lots of little ones like mine. It was clear the stock was being manipulated. It settled over $1.00 and I believe that was the goal. Elio is alive. WHY would some deep pocket want to keep it active on the stock market? Mark my word, The elio will still be made but it's name might be 'STEVE'. It will be electric and made in Lordstown, Ohio. Mark my word.

I hope you are right. nice to hear form you