I wouldn't worry about the big auto makers getting in the game any time soon. They are run by experts. Experts know what they are doing, unlike the rest of us who just have common sense. Experts know what will work 'cause they know what worked in the past. Experts know all about how it is done, and therefore know how to do it. And the experts have assured us that the Elio concept cannot possibly work. So I don't see them jumping intothe concept untill Elio is well on their way to a million units.I am hoping that EM can demonstrate a proof of concept to funding in a way that they can gain momentum while still avoiding being bought out or bringing direct competition from mainline automakers. I wanted in before the big west coast shows started playing out. And well it seemed fitting to declare independence from the same old guys on independence day. Keep the faith!
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Where Do You Stand Now?
- Thread starter Craig
- Start date
karl
Elio Addict
Honda started with motorcycles. BMW has been building them for a long time. Volkswagen bought Ducati not long ago. The manufacturers build what they think we will buy.
Avards
Elio Aficionado
Jeff Miller
Elio Addict
Experts:
They can do anything.
They can do anything.
I suppose the point is that they make what we already buy. We already buy cars, we already buy motorcycles. The Can-Am was a bit of a jump but a big success. Why didn't Honda do it? Why not BMW? Why does it take a new company to build something new?
The bureaucracy of big companies often makes it very difficult, and expensive, for them to bring fresh new ideas to production. These companies are set up to do what they already do and have very rigid procedures in place for how new products are defined, developed and introduced which actually makes it very hard for something very different to make it through to production.
BMW and Honda are great examples as they have completely separate car and motorcycle divisions so something like a value priced Elio would not fit the definition of what either division does and would likely face a difficult time making it through the system unless it was being forced through from above say as a result of Elio Motors actually being successful at creating a new vehicle category.
Before my first reservation, I was thinking a 3 out of ten, and I have move up 1 point each 6 months or so. I'm sitting at a 9.5 now.
Wow, this thread had truely become 'The Great Debate', but truely it IS the subject with the most to wonder about, at least for now. In my past experiences, it was all about "could such a vehicle be done?" Then "would anyone one at all want one?" Well those two items are put to rest, now it's "will they do it?", and "will anyone else?"
I guarentee that the major makers here in the US are still in disbelief of the first two issues at the top of this post. They also do not believe Elio is going to be realized. Otherside they would be more worried and taking more action. Even political action.
After Elio exists, and actually is cutting sales of other cars, then they'll be worried.
But Elio sales will not cut the sales of conventional new cars. It will actually make new cars more affordible. It's just people will drive thier new cars less. Now THAT will affect new car sales down the road a bit. Only then will the numbers prove to the major US makers that they need to compete with Elio, or at minimum adjust thier business model. So, IMHO, EM has a minimum of 3years before a Chev or Ford will even research competition to the Elio. Frankly, a buy-out would be much-much cheaper.
Overseas could be much more trouble for Elio. But only for overseas sales. No one will try to compete inside the US for this market segment, not at this price point. OK, someday maybe a Toyota, Subaru or Hyundai. But frankly it would not be a good investment to thier minds, because they will always see it as compeition to profits from thier normal lines. Like the US, they are used to a big profit for each individual car.
Now the Chinese? Yes they have something(s) they can convert to an Elio style inside 6months, but won't do the (big) effort to get it into the US. As I said, not at this price point. What the Chiese have now is at the Kit car level of production and quality. Low and Low.
From Elio's standpoint, I'd be more worried about a company like who built the Can-Am (BRD?), or the Zenn. They would take more like 2years to R&D something, but, I guess 3 years to fund it up front, so 5 total? And yes, a Canadian company would use Chinese manufacturing to create such a vehicle, just like they did the Zenn. The Zenn cost 10k in the us, and was about equal to the Elio in complexity.
Wow, this thread had truely become 'The Great Debate', but truely it IS the subject with the most to wonder about, at least for now. In my past experiences, it was all about "could such a vehicle be done?" Then "would anyone one at all want one?" Well those two items are put to rest, now it's "will they do it?", and "will anyone else?"
It took at least 5 years of US sales before anyone desided to compete with smartcar. Until then they got to sell it for 30K a unit. When competition finally appeared, Smartcar dropped the price down to under 15K, and used a cheaper engine.
I guarentee that the major makers here in the US are still in disbelief of the first two issues at the top of this post. They also do not believe Elio is going to be realized. Otherside they would be more worried and taking more action. Even political action.
After Elio exists, and actually is cutting sales of other cars, then they'll be worried.
But Elio sales will not cut the sales of conventional new cars. It will actually make new cars more affordible. It's just people will drive thier new cars less. Now THAT will affect new car sales down the road a bit. Only then will the numbers prove to the major US makers that they need to compete with Elio, or at minimum adjust thier business model. So, IMHO, EM has a minimum of 3years before a Chev or Ford will even research competition to the Elio. Frankly, a buy-out would be much-much cheaper.
Overseas could be much more trouble for Elio. But only for overseas sales. No one will try to compete inside the US for this market segment, not at this price point. OK, someday maybe a Toyota, Subaru or Hyundai. But frankly it would not be a good investment to thier minds, because they will always see it as compeition to profits from thier normal lines. Like the US, they are used to a big profit for each individual car.
Now the Chinese? Yes they have something(s) they can convert to an Elio style inside 6months, but won't do the (big) effort to get it into the US. As I said, not at this price point. What the Chiese have now is at the Kit car level of production and quality. Low and Low.
From Elio's standpoint, I'd be more worried about a company like who built the Can-Am (BRD?), or the Zenn. They would take more like 2years to R&D something, but, I guess 3 years to fund it up front, so 5 total? And yes, a Canadian company would use Chinese manufacturing to create such a vehicle, just like they did the Zenn. The Zenn cost 10k in the us, and was about equal to the Elio in complexity.
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BMW has built and tested three enclosed motorcycle concepts......2-Three Wheel Tilters and 1- Two Wheeler with outriggers similar to the Tracers. They could produce this new autocycle class of vehicle rather quickly if they see market demand......but at a much higher price point......................catering to higher performance and or luxury market demand.
karl
Elio Addict
I like (well love actually) micro cars. Lots of people hate them and feel they are getting forced into them by economics. The scooter powered "kabinrollers" in post WWII Europe remobilized the population. For many they evoke something other than fun.
An Elio is not something I need. It is something I want and looks to me as something that will be a blast to drive.
A good motorcycle disappears when you ride it. Just you and the road it becomes a prosthetic that lets you fly along a few inches above the ground. The mechanical bits become part of you. A single seater car is much the same. A formula car does not have to have a lot of power to be an absolute gas to drive. http://www.formulaveeracing.org/
I am all in for the fun of it.
An Elio is not something I need. It is something I want and looks to me as something that will be a blast to drive.
A good motorcycle disappears when you ride it. Just you and the road it becomes a prosthetic that lets you fly along a few inches above the ground. The mechanical bits become part of you. A single seater car is much the same. A formula car does not have to have a lot of power to be an absolute gas to drive. http://www.formulaveeracing.org/
I am all in for the fun of it.