I Shall Call It "total Enviormental Impact!"

[carzes]

Isn't that same guy I saw hitchhiking last week on a cloudy day. LOL

In southern Texas we'd GLADLY hitch-hike in exchange for a cloudy day.

Texas rain prayer:
Dear Lord, I was hoping you might see your way to send us some rain.
Not for myself so much, I've seen it before, but ya see, my son is seven years old now,
and he's starting to think I'm lyin'

 

[Folks]

I'm predicting that space age materials will facilitate compressing air to such extremes that such will replace gas for local commuting. Gas and Diesel will continue to be the long trip fuel. These compressed air tank materials are safe in that they don't explode with impacts of accidents. They just leak out and decompress by the nature of their construction and structure. If you've ever seen a lithium ion battery burn or seen how simple it is to ignite you would not want one in your car. LOL Someone aught to invent a trigger that would turn Lithium ion batteries into space age hand grenades. LOL

 

[Folks]

In southern Texas we'd GLADLY hitch-hike in exchange for a cloudy day.

Texas rain prayer:
Dear Lord, I was hoping you might see your way to send us some rain.
Not for myself so much, I've seen it before, but ya see, my son is seven years old now,
and he's starting to think I'm lyin'

LMAO, but really not funny.

 

[Jay3wheel]

LMAO, but really not funny.

I think they are using a similar prayer in California, but they can't call it a prayer because of the PC police.

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

Most experts say that we've got coal for a couple hundred years.
Most experts say that we've got NG for at least a hundred years.
Many experts say that we may only have 30 some years of oil given the projected future demand.
So, barring cold fusion, positive sum hydrogen cells, or some other energy source breakthrough...

The EV is the future.

But, as Tony says, It not quite ready for prime time yet.
Because of all it's costs, it's just not within the average common man's budget.
That having to pay 50% or more of the cost of the vehicle on a new battery bank every ten years is quite a deal breaker.
It has an Uncle that supports a good part of it's R&D and that's perfectly OK with me as a taxpayer.

The only way I'd consider an EV at this point is if I put a 5Kw grid-tied solar array on the roof.
There's still a 30% federal tax "rebate" and some states still give incentives.
I might just be able to have it installed for a net cost of $7500.
At that point, I'd be more concerned about EV range than EV MPGe.
Including powering the EV, a $7500 solar investment could pay for itself in a little over 5 years.

(salutes)

Thank you for getting my point.

I'm with you on a lot of points, but there are a LOT of unsettled debates on some things that I'm not sure we can get enough unbiased information to ever get to the real facts. Lithium for one is an unsettled issue becuase despite the fact that it's everywhere and means to get and refine it might improve, there are a LOT of cars on the planet and getting to be more all the time. To replace thwm all with EV's you're talking a LOT LOT LOT of lithium. Are we even sure there is that much on the planet? Much less can we get at it all without ripping the Earth apart? I don't pretend to know, but there's that lack of unbiased information again.
I don't remember who suggested capacitors, but uhhh..... NO. The best capacitors we have are dependent on rare earth elements and couldn't even come close. All the capacitors presently on the planet could drive a Nissan Leaf about a block or two. Barring some HUGE eureka discovery, no way!
There have been some interesting discussions about various compressed air and steam technologies that might add up to something.
I think the future of heavy transport is going to be on a vastly improved rail system, be it fossil or electric. Much more efficient than diesel trucks.
We clearly can't make enough ethanol to power all the transportation needs, but SOME of the cars, especially really efficient ones, could be run on it, especially if some new production meathods start to pan out.
And the future just might involve a few more bicycles than we'

And I actually understand the limitations, and accept them.
The EV infrastructure is limited and growing fast.
The reason Toyota made the Prius was to help the infrastructure grow.
When the Prius was first released, only a certain amount could be built because there simply wasn't enough factories making electric components suitable for autos.

Price point comes into play and happens quick. Real quick.
Smart phones went from almost none to standard equipment in 4 years because several technologies finally meshed. Cheaper CPU's memory, SSD's, and LCD/LED screens made a useful product at an acceptable price point.

EV's had 2 real problems. Battery and laws. Crash standards needed to be hashed out, and that takes money.
The power supply is the only remaining obstacle.

Think of the Tesla as the Phone 1 a few years back. Only elites had it at first, and the rest of us couldn't understand why we would want it. Now there are phones that are an order of magnitude faster and 1/4 the price.

And don't give up on unusual technologies just yet. Caps (or some say super caps) can easily make big jumps with a single breakthrough.

 

[Rickb]

Isn't that same guy I saw hitchhiking last week on a cloudy day. LOL

Did he have a flat? lol

 

[Elio Amazed]

Taxes?!?! Why should taxes be spent subsidizing a product they charge money for?

Why has the produce on your plate been relatively "dirt cheap" (compared to production cost) for as long as most of us have been alive?

The production of the ethanol you mentioned was subsidized by U.S. tax dollars.
All the corn used in it's production was heavily subsidized by U.S. tax dollars.
Ethanol has been a negative sum energy source for almost all of it's history.
Without tax dollars there would have never been 10% ethanol at the pumps.
I'm still not convinced that it's anything but a waste of time, energy, water and food.
I think that even the most bull-headed feds now realize what a gigantic screw-up that was.

Taxes have been used to fund every energy source since the grid was built.

That's the way it's been and it's certainly not going to change now.
Not while the only way to often expedite needed change is still artificial incentive.

Finite quantities are a reality.
Peak oil is a reality that most people don't want to speak of out loud.
The future is not going to be gasoline.
Neither is it going to be Ethanol.
Electricity production is so much cheaper than than ethanol production that there's no contest.
Besides, we're just not going to starve as many people as it would take to replace petroleum with more organically sourced ethanol.

Again, barring a breakthrough from another energy source, the EV looks like the next logical winner.
It's the one the federal government seems to think is next and it's the one they're betting on.
You can use every other energy source to produce electricity, usually with little cost in refitting existing equipment.
As long as we still have a grid, electricity is our 'standardized, universal language' that's easily distributable.
Thanks in a large part (again) to subsidies (both U.S. and Chinese) the cost of home solar is dropping.
Consequently, the number of residential and commercial (subsidized) installations is steadily increasing.
Researchers (government funded and non) continue to search for ways to make solar panels cheaper and "greener".

In this and the previous two centuries, the power belonged to the people who controlled the power.

There seems to be a lot of government money influencing the choice of paths that the energy industry takes.
People tend to jump on the wagon that seems to be powered and moving forward.
Are the major auto makers investing heavily in EVs because they don't think they'll eventually be the standard?
Are the oil companies heavily investing in other energy sources because they believe peak oil is a myth?

Home solar needs to become affordable for the average Joe and energy storage needs a lot of improvement.
It seems that a good part of the time, energy and money being spent is being spent on those two issues.
People tend to jump on the wagon that seems to be powered and moving forward.
It's been said that the ICE Elio is just a glorious bridge.
I agree. So be it.

After all, there's only so much efficiency that you can force out of a ICE powered vehicle and still retain it's practicality.
New mid-size trucks are required, by law, to achieve an mpg or MPGe figure in the mid 50's by 2025.

So who controls, and will control, the power?
What form of power will be the one to be controlled?

 

[Folks]

I think they are using a similar prayer in California, but they can't call it a prayer because of the PC police.

Haven't you heard? PC is a religion that requires more faith than any other. How many still have faith in it's present day leader? So if nothing else pray for their lack of belief.
As a foot note I'm placing two cute little motor assisted bikes up for sale. We always road these together. Since she broke her Fibia walking the garbage down to the curb (ghastly break) I don't care to ride alone. These cute little motorized bikes are accorded all the privileges and governance as any other bicycle in most states (no license required except the generic drivers license for street use.) 214 miles to the gal. 4cycle, 1.2 hp no oil mixing. Sounds like a little miniature Harley. LOL There is an entire culture here on the net that swear by them. Some claim to have put 50, 000 miles on those motors traveling all over the country.

 

[Folks]

Did he have a flat? lol

your funny Rick. LOL

 

[Folks]

Why has the produce on your plate has been relatively "dirt cheap" (compared to production cost) for as long as most of us have been alive?

The future is not going to be gasoline.

Peak oil is a reality that most people don't want to speak of out loud.

So who controls, and will control, the power?
What form of power will be the one to be controlled?

Doesn't bother me in the slightest to point out; peak oil is a myth just as global warming is a myth.
I don't think you've seen the possibilities any more than the next fellow. What's troubling is that you don't see all the straw dogs being perpetrated on the American Public solely to garner power to the politicians.

Free enterprise is the engine to sort it all out. If you decide to throw your hands up in disgust then the show is over. Our points are mute.
Government takes on God status once it appoints itself dispensation rights as to who gets what (it's their job just to keep it fair and representative only and not to rule power). You guys can go on and keep duping yourselves over the straw dogs. I'm going to vote a straight ticket in a couple of days. It's never in history been possible to be 96.346465% correct just by throwing the lever in the voting booth in only one direction. We'll see in a couple of days.