Somewhat Tough Questions...

[Ty]

So...based on several forum member's comments...Elio Motors does not currently have a in-house R&D facility...which I find very surprising...

So here's just a small list of testing requirements necessary to bring any new vehicle to market...I'm uncertain how you can set final design parameters without a staff of engineers to oversee & coordinate vender design projects...someone must supervise component integration for the Elio Vehicle...

This is a very insightful comment quoted from another forum with regards to Elio prototype testing...

"With any new engine design...you have to do cold-soak followed by cold start tests, and hot-start tests, and high altitude, and combinations of the two, and wet weather, and freeze/thaw. And you have to do some testing at wide open throttle, and at idle, because they both have limiting conditions for engine wear. It takes months. And that's only the engine. Then there's the transmission, then there's the suspension and chassis, and the electrical systems, and the interior. You have to make sure the vehicle will survive salt-spray environment, and slush and snow, and desert sand, and rain. You have to make sure the ABS and stability-control systems work properly on pavement, and wet pavement, and gravel roads, and on snow and ice, and bumpy roads. You have to make sure the air bags don't fire off when they shouldn't, and do fire when they should.Than there's long term durability studies...actual crash testing has to be performed...etc...etc...etc...the list is long and time consuming."

So...without it's own R&D department...who is going to supervise such endeavors?

You don't HAVE to do all of that but the transmission is already done. Engine in testing. Frame in some testing. Well, we know it can withstand thousands of butts and door closings. Most other components were tested on other vehicles and will just be used on the Elio. The engine testing is being done by a professional team and it isn't like in the old days where it takes forever. A lot can be extrapolations from limited testing.

 

[Jay3wheel]

TexasElio, welcome, if you have taken the plunge great! If not that's fine too, either way you have to understand Elio is a start up company. They are not GM or Fiat, maybe they will be someday. My point is Apple started in a garage, the Wright Brothers in a bicycle shop. Paul Elio, an auto industry executive decided to try and produce a revolutionary new car. The type of car would be very different from what everyone else is doing. Elio is outside the box. They are going to produce a safe car for $6,800, that gets great gas mileage. They can't buy hundreds of acres for a test track, they can rent one. They can't keep twenty engineers on the payroll, but they can use the ones at the suppliers when needed.
Nothing I say will relieve all your doubts. This is not a big time car company, it is one man's dream and will continue to be until car one rolls off the assembly line. So, share the dream or watch the dream whatever works for you. But, jumping on the Elio bandwagon takes a little faith. I will now come down from the pulpit and resume my snarky commenting.

 

[CheeseheadEarl]

TE, did ya ever stop to think that the hordes of engineers on most products today only make them needlessly complex?

"Too many cooks spoil the stew."

I won't even start on the fact that most engineers have no real world experience with the products they design.

 

[W. WIllie]

If the engineers had to assemble the vehicle, I bet they would design it different.
BEST design and build engineers are the NASCAR ones.

Willie

 

[RKing]

Welcome from Tennessee.
I am an engineer within the auto industry. Anything you(or I) think we know about how the auto industry operates is suspect when talking Elio. That is the very reason I have money down. We do everything the hard way with hands tied behind back due to "we do it this way" thinking. I hope for a 2015 SORP but can live with whenever gets it done.
thanks to GM (HaHa) Elio has 7 paint lines ready to go and a fully outfitted assembly and body shop. This startuip is more like a model changeover with NO options. His plan is to build every Elio exactly the same on the line. Only difference is exterior color. Options will be "off line" changes. That alone makes the startup tremendously easier. Now the engine build is another story. I was told that engine assb (and I think machining) would be at the plant. There is no engine line at Shreaveport, maybe a dress line but no build line. That and the machining are the primary work. I really hope they are like ducks serene on the surface and "paddling like crazy under water"

 

[RKing]

Thanks for the info...

I find that very surprising that Elio Motors does not have a staff of engineers to oversee vehicle development & design...

So...must I assume there is no actual R&D facility for Elio Motors?

As far as I can tell, they do not. And I consider that a STRONG asset to the Elio company. Inhouse design and engineering is very costly in overhead. You have a certain headcount of engineers to get the product designed and then a much smaller headcount to run production. Typically the engineers for a production facility are of different experience and background than design engineers. That means you are paying a staff to do nothing or things they are not experienced with most of the time. WASTEFUL.
Elio means efficient to me, in most all aspects. No bigger than needed, no more wheels than needed, no more power than needed, no more development than needed, no more COST than required, no more staff than required , and not spending money before it is required by the time line. 3 must haves, 6800$ base price, 84MPG (up to), and 5* crash tests !

 

[RKing]

Last 2 posts DEAD ON ! And I are one
But seriously, they are using contract companies with expertiese in their required areas. The nice thing is that if they need to focus on chassis development and engine validation , they do. Chose your parterners well, and let them do what they know how to do. A very forieign comcept to the big3.

 

[goofyone]

Last 2 posts DEAD ON ! And I are one
But seriously, they are using contract companies with expertiese in their required areas. The nice thing is that if they need to focus on chassis development and engine validation , they do. Chose your parterners well, and let them do what they know how to do. A very forieign comcept to the big3.

The real irony is that Paul Elio is actually generally following a business blueprint which has been used successfully in limited form by GM in Brazil. The big 3 are actually fully aware of the advantages of doing things the way Paul Elio and Elio Motors are doing things however changing is very hard for those organizations. So while the big 3 refuses to change the ideas which they developed and have proven to be successful are being used by someone else to compete against them.

Since 2000, customers in Brazil can order the Celta over the internet from a site that links them with GM's assembly plant and 470 dealers nationwide. By 2006, 700,000 Celtas had been produced and the car continues to be one of Brazil's best sellers. Consumers have 20 "build-combinations" from which to configure a model of their choice, including colors and accessories, and can view each change as it is being made. GM built five distribution centers throughout Brazil to reduce transportation time from its assembly plant and buyers can track location of their car online on its way to delivery at a dealer of their choice. The time from configuration at the factory to delivery is only about a week, in contrast to the several week wait that can be common in ordering a car in the United States. The Celta was designed by GM in collaboration with suppliers who deliver just-in-time pre-assembled modules to the factory. GM estimates that collaboration in design and manufacturing enabled it to use 60 percent fewer suppliers and 50 percent fewer parts than in a traditional assembly operation. According to Mark Hogan, president of e-GM at the time of the Celta's introduction, GM can sell Celtas 24 hours a day and enjoys a competitive advantage from reduced production time, lower inventory levels and an overall more efficient distribution and sales model where dealers need to stock only two models, one for the show room and one for test drives. Consumers benefit from Celta's online no-haggle pricing structure, where prices are about 6 percent lower than for sales made through conventional distribution channels. The price is lower because GM passes on to consumers some of the tax benefits it gets from the Brazilian government as a result of the reduced inventory and real estate associated with online sales.

Source: Economic Effects of State Bans on Direct Manufacturer Sales to Car Buyers
http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/eag/246374.htm

 

[Rickb]

R&D? Paul Elio is CEO of ESG Engineering......product development is what they do. He knows what he's doing to get an automotive product or vehicle to market. Beyond Elio's in house expertise he is partnering with some of the finest automotive designers, manufacturers, and parts suppliers in the industry..........whether in house or out of house it's getting done in a very precise calculated manor and he is monitoring every detail.......and has surrounded himself with a team of quality people that share his vision.

 

[Norahsbed]

at a $6800.00 price point I think refinement in it's first year will not be a sticking point.
Certainly the time frame presented is all screwed up.

I am just hoping it gets produced. They are breaking a lot of the rules that most car manufactures follow.

That's the best part of Elio Motors....... Breaking all the rules! Not following the flock of vultures, ready to pick our bones and wallets clean!