It is a lesson recently learned in dealing with brokers when trying to transfer the Elio stock to their accounts. Unfamiliarity led to a hodgepodge of responses which changed frequently. Making them aware of the new kid on the block is simple preparation to reduce, though probably not eliminate, problems.
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Insurance Costs? (egads!) Another Can Of Worms!
- Thread starter nickskeys
- Start date
Grumpy Cat
Elio Addict
Which must be asked again, how does asking our agents somehow reduce our chances of getting affordable insurance? It doesn't. When I asked mine, he said they would most likely be able to because they insure other three wheeled vehicles, so he doesn't see a reason why they wouldn't insure the Elio. He wasn't able to give me a quote because this isn't in production yet.
That is one answer and I suspect asking ten agents would bring at least 5 different answers. Hopefully it becomes a topic at the water cooler and they begin to formulate a consensus answer when it is needed.
bunchathrees
Elio Addict
Insurance is a business of applied statistics - controlled by the corporate actuaries, not the agents. The agents can communicate with corporate regarding the growing interest in this new thing, but that is about all the influence they'll have.
I'm sure this triggered lots of comments as it does for me.
There is one driving factor for insurance, "Can I make money?". That invokes three considerations, "what's my opportunity(how many customers), what's my risk, what's my competition?"
Initially they will look at the results of the crash testing very intensely, compare (which they can) the risk of harm to the driver and risk of harm to other people and vehicles. For the Elio that's pretty low. And at least a couple will offer interesting rates. EM is up on this issue and that pretty well guarantees insurance from day 1. Probably at a fair rate. Someone will probably try to get a leveraged partnership, name mention or something to boost sales and profit margines.
But then when the sales opportunity is obvious, probably even before the first actual delivery date, there will be interest in competing, and going forward prices will drop more as time goes along and data is gathered. The few companies that have foresight and get this right will be winners with lots of new customers. For some of them this will be more of a way to swing all the cars from a household into their camp.
I'm not at all worried about finding insurance.
I just joined the forum here, having placed my deposit yesterday. I have worked for insurance companies (as in carriers, not agents) for over 30 years. I have literally held just about every job title over that time frame from mail clerk to President & CEO. Much of my time has been spent in the areas of auto product development and pricing.
Out of the gate, I can't envision how the Elio could be insured as an "auto" given the current definition of auto contained in all state insurance statutes (4 wheels, et al), which in turn dictates the definitions in approved policy language. Therefore, it will most likely be covered under a motorcycle policy. As has been stated in previous posts, there are MANY variables that effect the final cost of insurance (driver, territory, coverages, multi-policy discounts, etc.). The variable that is the "vehicle" will have a more significant impact in the determination of the physical damage coverage (comp & collision) than it will the liability (bodily injury & property damage). With respect to phys dam, it is obvious that repairing an Elio could be more expensive than a typical motorcycle; you've got body panels, windows & window motors, HVAC system, ABS/DSC systems, etc. If someone runs into the Elio driver door at 10 mph, how much damage would be done? It would probably be comparable to repairing the composite door on a Corvette. But at least the Elio driver should still be alive, and have all their limbs, which would probably not be the case if a motorcycle sustained a 10 mph side impact. Switching over to liability, the vehicle has some effect on premium. For a typical motorcycle policy, the main reason liability insurance is significantly less than auto insurance is because motorcycles tend to do significantly less damage to objects that they hit, compared to cars (obviously!). But with the Elio, there is the potential for it to do more damage than a typical motorcycle. It weighs a little more at 1200-1300 lbs, and with the dual front wheels, does present a larger frontal area than a bike, plus the engine is up front. All of those things are good for the Elio driver, but that will contribute to more damage to objects that are hit, compared with a motorcycle. Will it compare with a typical car? Absolutely not. Much less damage caused by an Elio than a Camry, or certainly a Suburban. The one coverage that should cost significantly less on the Elio than a motorcycle, is medical payments (first party). The occupants of the Elio may not be as safe as the Suburban occupants in this regard, but they are WAY safer than a motorcycle rider.
Having said all that, there still may be some insurers who are not comfortable insuring Elios at first. This is not an unreasonable reaction. I think most businesses might be uncomfortable selling a product where they didn't know what their cost was. Insurers are no different. But as AriLea put it above, in a vibrant, competitive marketplace, it will sort itself out pretty quickly. And when it does, I suspect that for any given driver, the cost to insure an Elio will be greater than a motorcycle, but less than an economy car. I'm not worried.
Out of the gate, I can't envision how the Elio could be insured as an "auto" given the current definition of auto contained in all state insurance statutes (4 wheels, et al), which in turn dictates the definitions in approved policy language. Therefore, it will most likely be covered under a motorcycle policy. As has been stated in previous posts, there are MANY variables that effect the final cost of insurance (driver, territory, coverages, multi-policy discounts, etc.). The variable that is the "vehicle" will have a more significant impact in the determination of the physical damage coverage (comp & collision) than it will the liability (bodily injury & property damage). With respect to phys dam, it is obvious that repairing an Elio could be more expensive than a typical motorcycle; you've got body panels, windows & window motors, HVAC system, ABS/DSC systems, etc. If someone runs into the Elio driver door at 10 mph, how much damage would be done? It would probably be comparable to repairing the composite door on a Corvette. But at least the Elio driver should still be alive, and have all their limbs, which would probably not be the case if a motorcycle sustained a 10 mph side impact. Switching over to liability, the vehicle has some effect on premium. For a typical motorcycle policy, the main reason liability insurance is significantly less than auto insurance is because motorcycles tend to do significantly less damage to objects that they hit, compared to cars (obviously!). But with the Elio, there is the potential for it to do more damage than a typical motorcycle. It weighs a little more at 1200-1300 lbs, and with the dual front wheels, does present a larger frontal area than a bike, plus the engine is up front. All of those things are good for the Elio driver, but that will contribute to more damage to objects that are hit, compared with a motorcycle. Will it compare with a typical car? Absolutely not. Much less damage caused by an Elio than a Camry, or certainly a Suburban. The one coverage that should cost significantly less on the Elio than a motorcycle, is medical payments (first party). The occupants of the Elio may not be as safe as the Suburban occupants in this regard, but they are WAY safer than a motorcycle rider.
Having said all that, there still may be some insurers who are not comfortable insuring Elios at first. This is not an unreasonable reaction. I think most businesses might be uncomfortable selling a product where they didn't know what their cost was. Insurers are no different. But as AriLea put it above, in a vibrant, competitive marketplace, it will sort itself out pretty quickly. And when it does, I suspect that for any given driver, the cost to insure an Elio will be greater than a motorcycle, but less than an economy car. I'm not worried.
Truett Collins
Elio Addict
...Several Insurance companies asked to met Elio at a Insurance Company Test track and examined the autocycle. Their reviews were positive and it was thought (with this limited prototype data) that this would basically be a Car Insurance minus instead of a Motorcycle plus situation. Mostly due to car like qualities and safety with a low damage rate to others and low cost for replacement.
Yes, that is how I feel as well, i.e., more like a car than a motorcycle. However, since all current auto policies that I am aware of define an auto as a vehicle with four wheels, those same insurers (and myself) would not be able to issue an auto policy for the Elio. Again, I think this will all sort itself out in time, especially if the definition of "autocycle" becomes more universally adopted as well (IL adopted it in Jan 2015). Companies may be able to include autocycles in the definition of an auto, or it may stay as as a vehicle covered under a motorcycle policy. But right now, the Elio does not meet the definition of an auto as contained in personal auto policies.
BiloxiGeek
Elio Addict
Mississippi also adopted the autocycle class, 2015 I believe. I don't have numbers but I'm pretty sure a lot of states have done the same due to lobbying efforts by Elio.
Jeff Bowlsby
Elio Addict
Excellent insight from a pro, thank you. One more datum that the Elio can be viewed as "more than a motorcycle, less than a car".
Would it be any great challenge for the insurance industry to simply create a new insurance category for the autocycle rather than try to morph it into an existing policy type? Seems like EM should be interfacing with the major insurance providers to resolve this proactively now that the actual production vehicle is taking shape.
Would it be any great challenge for the insurance industry to simply create a new insurance category for the autocycle rather than try to morph it into an existing policy type? Seems like EM should be interfacing with the major insurance providers to resolve this proactively now that the actual production vehicle is taking shape.