Does The Elio Make Sense As An "and" Car?

Elio Amazed · Jan 6, 2019

Maurtis said:
First off, do not get me wrong. I want an Elio. I REALLY want an Elio. But I never wanted one for the fuel savings or reduced emissions but just because it was a very cool automobile. I think it will be an engaging drive and that appeals to me.

BUT... for the average American does it make sense to buy an Elio as a commuter to supplement their current fleet? It makes sense to buy an Elio if a current commuter dies and they need a new one, but what about as an "and" car?

The data on average commute distance is all over the place, but I am estimating about 10 miles each way (20 miles total) based on these numbers: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/here-are-the-typical-commutes-for-every-big-metro-area-2015-03-25

Elio estimated current cars on the road get around 21 MPG: https://www.eliomotors.com/it-pays-for-itself/

Gas prices over the years, we are currently in a low point (I am using $2.25 based on AAA numbers) but a high average of $4 is still not that bad: https://www.titlemax.com/discovery-center/planes-trains-and-automobiles/average-gas-prices-through-history/

Everyone's situation is different of course, I am using a $10,000 cost estimate for the Elio since that is the number I have seen used here in the past for the average optioned Elio out the door price. And assuming that maintenance costs for the Elio will be similar to current commuter cars, but with one less tire and lighter weight that may be a little lower too. But then again you have to pay for insurance and yearly registration for an extra vehicle, so calling those even.

I am going to compare both using the Elio as just a daily commuter using the average of a 20 mile commute as well as using the Elio as a primary vehicle for 12,000 miles per year. In Elio blogs and newsletters they use 12,000 miles, so their assumption is that the "and" vehicle does much more than just commuting.

Using the Elio as a daily commuter
-------------------------------------
Assumptions: 20 miles per day commute round trip
Elio MPG: 66.5 MPG combined (average of 49 city/ 84 highway)
Current MPG: 21 MPG combined
Cost of gas: $2.25 per gallon
Cost of a Elio: $10,000
-------------------------------------

Elio daily cost
20 miles driven / 66.5 MPG = 0.3 gallons
0.3 gallons * $2.25 = $0.68 per day in gas

Current daily cost
20 miles driven / 21 MPG = 0.95 gallons
0.95 gallons * $2.25 = $2.14 per day in gas

-------------------------------------

Daily gas savings
$2.14 - $0.68 = $1.46

Days for Elio to pay for itself:
$10,000 / $1.46 = 6,849 days (18.76 years)

-------------------------------------

Elio as a primary vehicle (12,000 miles per year)
-------------------------------------
Elio yearly cost
12,000 miles driven / 66.5 MPG = 180.45 gallons
180.45 gallons * $2.25 = $406.01 per year in gas

Current yearly cost
12,000 miles driven / 21 MPG = 571.43 gallons
571.43 gallons * $2 = $1,285.72 per day in gas
-------------------------------------

Yearly savings
$1,285.72 - $406.01 = $879.71

Years for Elio to pay for itself:
$10,000 / $879.71 = 11.37 years

So unless those numbers are off, if an average American only commutes in their Elio it would take almost 19 years for the extra cost to break even? If you double to gas price to $4.50 then that is still 9.5 years, way longer than most Americans keep vehicles.

Or if an average American primarily uses their Elio and their SUV/truck/family car mainly sits in the driveway then 11.37 years. But if the gas price doubles then the Elio pays for itself in less than 6 years. Interestingly enough, it looks like average Americans are holding onto new cars longer now, with a 6.5 year average! So just long enough for the Elio to make sense (if they mostly drive the Elio and gas prices double): https://www.cnbc.com/2015/07/28/americans-holding-onto-their-cars-longer-than-ever.html

You're not taking into account the wear and tear costs that the ($10,000?) Elio will save on your ($xx.xxx) vehicle #1.
Anytime I've had larger vehicles and/or AWD vehicles, the costs of parts and labor were through the roof.
Because you have the Elio as an "and" vehicle, you'll likely lengthen the life of the primary.
And that saves much of the initial purchase/replacement price of vehicle #1.

Also, you used today's record-low gas price in your computations.
It never stays that low for very long.

I know for a fact that my motorcycles...
Which I've only had to replace oil, tires and a chain on...
Have saved massive amounts of normal wear and tear on both my cars.

Not to mention the gasoline savings. My smaller bike gets a consistent 80mpg.

W. WIllie · Jan 6, 2019

Don't you mean "Up to 80 Mpg"?

Elio Amazed · Jan 7, 2019

W. WIllie said:
Don't you mean "Up to 80 Mpg"?

Nope. I mean a consistent 80mpg, just as I said.

RSchneider · Jan 7, 2019

Elio Amazed said:
You're not taking into account the wear and tear costs that the ($10,000?) Elio will save on your ($xx.xxx) vehicle #1.

That's not correct. You need to look at overall maintenance costs of the two. In the end it's higher because even though you are not driving the #1 car as much, it will still require upkeep that has nothing to do with mileage. People believe that if they park the car that it just sits and nothing will wear out but in this day of age, the engine, suspension and driveline typically outlasts the car. It's all of the other things that break (i.e. electronics) even if the car just sits. I even see this in manufacturing when someone puts in a new line that efficient and the old one is there when demand for the widgets go up and they can fire it up. Then the owner of the company gets mad because when they fire up the old line, something is wrong and he doesn't get it because, "How could the line break by just sitting there?"

Again, nobody takes this into account until they run into an issue then they get mad because that car sitting there 5 days a week is nickel and diming them to death.

Elio Amazed · Jan 7, 2019

RSchneider said:
That's not correct. You need to look at overall maintenance costs of the two. In the end it's higher because even though you are not driving the #1 car as much, it will still require upkeep that has nothing to do with mileage. People believe that if they park the car that it just sits and nothing will wear out but in this day of age, the engine, suspension and driveline typically outlasts the car. It's all of the other things that break (i.e. electronics) even if the car just sits. I even see this in manufacturing when someone puts in a new line that efficient and the old one is there when demand for the widgets go up and they can fire it up. Then the owner of the company gets mad because when they fire up the old line, something is wrong and he doesn't get it because, "How could the line break by just sitting there?"

Again, nobody takes this into account until they run into an issue then they get mad because that car sitting there 5 days a week is nickel and diming them to death.

Nope. We agree to disagree. There is still substantial savings obtained from keeping the miles low on your "main" vehicle.
It's the difference between using the lower priced (if you don't option it to death) Elio for racking up the mileage...
And having to either trade or junk your main vehicle 10 years earlier because it's simply worn out.
I've had backup vehicles most of my life. I speak from experience, not speculation.

I agree that it's not as much if you only drive 100 miles a week.
But it is substantial savings for the person with a long commute.
And we're being told the Elio should be the cheaper one to repair.

An additional note...
My mechanic charges me substantially less than the majority of his customers.
It's because I leave the vehicle with him to work on at his convenience.
I don't have to have the vehicle back the same or next day.
He can get to it when he gets the chance.

My current mechanic of ten years is not the first one to do this.
Also, with a backup, I don't have to "settle" because I need to replace a vehicle NOW.
I can wait weeks+ until THE sweet deal comes along. Saving a huge chunk of change over the years..

RSchneider · Jan 7, 2019

I've always had a spare car. I work on them myself. Over the last 30 years I've tracked the cost of keeping that spare as opposed to not having it. In the end, it costs more vs the mileage and time I keep them as opposed to just having one. Since the spare car ends up being the older one, it's more prone to having an issue as opposed to having that spare car being new. It is convenient to have that spare car but not necessary and when you look at just 10 years of ownership of both, not just the upkeep on both but insurance, license and inspection that they both need every year. So, paying just those three for a car that sits 90% of the time is not the best use of money. Same for cable TV. When the TV bill is the same whether it's on 100% or 10%. Same for when something like a transmission controller goes out. It's a harder pill to swallow when the car is only driven 10% of the time as opposed to 90%.

What it comes down to is, it's a convenience car. It ends up making your overall cost go up over a year but you are willing to pay to have it sitting there in case you need it. It's no different when someone has to buy the latest version of a phone because it'll do more when in fact, all then do with it within a week is text, check social media, take selfies and make a phone call once in a while. People justify it because of the convenience of having some new feature.

In the end, when you will take delivery of that Elio as the "and" car, it will take longer to justify having it, because you need to take into account the cost of that #2 car that's just sitting there. You have to remember, I'm not talking about everyone here that will be paying under $6K for their Elio (minus, tax, transportation and fees) but the average guy that will be paying and average of $12K OTD for his new Elio "and" car. Again, the average person is what we need to keep Elio in business.

Ty · Jan 7, 2019

Sega said:
I just don't see many people buying an "and" car. Why not an "and" tv, fridge, etc etc....

I think the buyer an elio type car is part of a small market/niche.

In terms of resale value, very few people actually worry about that. They say they worry about it at first, then immediately ignore it. Also, if that was the case, everyone would have an "and" car right now.

I'll be one of those people buying it just as an "and" vehicle. It won't take long to pay for itself as I'll let my 13MPG truck sit idly while driving the Elio. I'm betting the Elio also won't need 15 quarts of oil per oil change either. I can't get rid of the Truck because I have a large trailer that I pull occasionally.

Ty · Jan 7, 2019

Elio Amazed said:
Nope. I mean a consistent 80mpg, just as I said.

I got the "up to" joke. LOL.

Elio Amazed · Jan 7, 2019

Ty said:
I got the "up to" joke. LOL.

I did too. I guess I should have said that.

larryboy · Jan 7, 2019

RSchneider said:
That's not correct. You need to look at overall maintenance costs of the two. In the end it's higher because even though you are not driving the #1 car as much, it will still require upkeep that has nothing to do with mileage. People believe that if they park the car that it just sits and nothing will wear out but in this day of age, the engine, suspension and driveline typically outlasts the car. It's all of the other things that break (i.e. electronics) even if the car just sits. I even see this in manufacturing when someone puts in a new line that efficient and the old one is there when demand for the widgets go up and they can fire it up. Then the owner of the company gets mad because when they fire up the old line, something is wrong and he doesn't get it because, "How could the line break by just sitting there?"

Again, nobody takes this into account until they run into an issue then they get mad because that car sitting there 5 days a week is nickel and diming them to death.

If you use the "and" car and your main car properly they will save you money. We drive the and car for short trips. Too short for the main car to warm up. We drive it when the weather is bad and that is important in an area where the roads have salt on them for 1/2 the year. We also drive the main car often enough so that the battery is charged and the fuel does not get stale. We have two drivers in the house and try to plan appointments and grocery trips so that we drive together but I still work part time and don't want to leave the wife at home without transportation. Most of the people I know have 2 or more cars and would be served better if an Elio was one of the mix

Does The Elio Make Sense As An "and" Car?

Elio Amazed

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W. WIllie

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Elio Amazed

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RSchneider

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Elio Amazed

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RSchneider

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Ty

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Ty

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Elio Amazed

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larryboy

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