Funding Refused By Paul Elio

Johnny Acree · Oct 11, 2019

And the need for an "Elio" is getting,,,? what is the best word here?,,, more? worse?,,,.
We, "the people" NEED an "Elio" more now than ever.
A story from Reuters
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...americans-over-the-edge/ar-AAICZJ9?li=BBnbfcN

AriLea · Oct 11, 2019

Johnny Acree said:
And the need for an "Elio" is getting,,,? what is the best word here?,,, more? worse?,,,.
We, "the people" NEED an "Elio" more now than ever.
A story from Reuters
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...americans-over-the-edge/ar-AAICZJ9?li=BBnbfcN

Perfect article to make the point. I wish someone like Bill Gates would read it, and connect the dots to Elio Motors.
But no, he's busy in places like Africa. Not that Africa doesn't deserve rescue. But don't we deserve it too?

Frankly, if you save middle class America a few trillion that Elio could save 'us', being how we are, we would put as much into Africa that people like Bill Gates plans to do.

PS, just submitted this statement to the Gates Foundation, not that they will read it.

Made in USA · Oct 11, 2019

Getting back to the topic "Funding Refused by Paul Elio", the real question might be "when will Paul give up some of the control/profit in order to start making the vehicles? I wonder how many legitimate offers he has refused because of his own, what's the word, ego? I'm sure there are some other words for people that must be in control.

3wheelin · Oct 11, 2019

AriLea said:
Something said in prior posts reiterates a point.

1) The purpose of a product is often stated as giving people what they want, at what they are willing to pay. 2) The purpose of making the product, is returning a profit to the maker. 3) But the ideal of the activity is creating something that people actually need, and can afford.

Commercial investors are very wary of activity that looks too much like #3, they are dedicated to #2, and very manipulative of #1. The more you look like #3 than #2, the harder it is to get investors to risk real money in the game. They want proof of #2 and want #1 to be compliant in their hands. I suspect #3 is sometimes a little too ridged for their taste.

The community is very aware that there are very few examples in the automotive field where a business figured out an ideal vehicle that was in the realm of pure need, worked out a profit, convinced people they wanted it enough to pay for it, and convinced investors to jump-start it all. The very-very low success rate has spooked everyone adverse to the risk. Even though, when they did succeed, it was sometimes ginormous.

There are even less examples for 3 wheel cars, and those are not often considered relevant for today's demands on speed and safety.

At the moment I can only think of very few pure examples. The VW bug is one of the best(public/politically funded), but the Model T (and Model A), that was about the only one where some pivotal decisions went toward need over want. Issetta, Mesherschmitt these tried real hard. Even the Pinto focused on the need more than makers seem willing do these days. They now seem to consider those historical examples to be commercial failures, but by the number of sales, and early business growth, hugely popular. It was actually the conduct of business later that had any let-down.

I just NEED an inexpensive transportation to where I want to go. THEY want to sell me all kinds of other crap like cool personna, seating for 10 and autonomous driving.

Now put your shoes in their place (investors) and that's where your fantasy ends and you're back to reality! "All I need" don't mean squat to them...profit rules unfortunately for us that "only NEED basic WANT". Years ago, I needed a basic ride to take me to work and back. One dealer advertised "Nissan Sentra for 9K, one at this price". It was almost hidden at the very end of the car lot, like they think nobody will want it- stick shift, basic AM/FM and no CD, handcranked windows but had A/C and heat- that's all I needed, paid for it and drove away happy!

84mpg · Oct 11, 2019

Johnny Acree said:
And the need for an "Elio" is getting,,,? what is the best word here?,,, more? worse?,,,.
We, "the people" NEED an "Elio" more now than ever.
A story from Reuters
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...americans-over-the-edge/ar-AAICZJ9?li=BBnbfcN

thanks for posting this link! I heard of some of these stats a few weeks ago.

For the last five years, I worked a seasonal event outside of my real job. My employer was gracious and allowed me to use my banked personal time.

I saw guys (and a few gals) struggle every day to get to work. They either got there in an old, completely worn out and unsafe vehicle - or hitched a ride in someone else’s similar vehicle. These folks desperately wanted to work - and they held their breath each day, hoping they could make it back and forth. Most of the vehicles were unsafe to be on the roads. I saw where Elios could have made such a positive impact in their lives....

It’s pretty hard to work a steady job if it’s always a roll of the dice that you’ll get there.

RSchneider · Oct 11, 2019

Made in USA said:
Getting back to the topic "Funding Refused by Paul Elio", the real question might be "when will Paul give up some of the control/profit in order to start making the vehicles? I wonder how many legitimate offers he has refused because of his own, what's the word, ego? I'm sure there are some other words for people that must be in control.

I have never found any information about funding being refused. All I found was this:

I had been told months ago that all the money needed by EM had been offered but turned down because the person with the money wanted too much control. However, what I am saying is what I have heard and not confirmed.

and this:

No news on loan. Was told there are 3 or 4 alternative sources of financing, and that Elio is definitely a "when" not "if" thing. They would not give any specifics, but it sounded like the biggest issue with large private investors is them gaining control over the company.

The way I see it, it's just hearsay and that's it. So I do not believe any of it. Especially when these quotes are 4.5 to 5 years old and we have seen how this all has turned out.

Some of the other quotes are like this:

One of the folks I talked to said she was hoping the prototypes would start being built in August, but that was more of a "hope" than a concrete date.

and this:

They hope that 2 or 3 of the prototypes will be designated for reservation holder test drives.

What it does sound like is maybe some salesperson was just making everything sound really good when it comes to funding and giving people a vote of confidence. Again, we see how this has all turned out.

RSchneider · Oct 11, 2019

84mpg said:
thanks for posting this link! I heard of some of these stats a few weeks ago.

For the last five years, I worked a seasonal event outside of my real job. My employer was gracious and allowed me to use my banked personal time.

I saw guys (and a few gals) struggle every day to get to work. They either got there in an old, completely worn out and unsafe vehicle - or hitched a ride in someone else’s similar vehicle. These folks desperately wanted to work - and they held their breath each day, hoping they could make it back and forth. Most of the vehicles were unsafe to be on the roads. I saw where Elios could have made such a positive impact in their lives....

It’s pretty hard to work a steady job if it’s always a roll of the dice that you’ll get there.

For everyone that needs an Elio, how have you been able to survive up until now? How are you going to survive the next few years? With the economy in the toilet and used cars way too expensive, you might have to look into something to fill in that gap until you get your Elio. What are your plans?

AriLea · Oct 11, 2019

Impact... hmm, some numbers, conservatively, (BTW, I refinanced my cars and other loans into my house. $800/mo savings)

17.5 million cars are sold every year in the USA. On the average each Elio purchased displaces a sedan purchase, no mater what EM says about that, at least somewhere during the life cycle of a driver.

Average cost of a sedan, $25k. Average MPG, 25mpg, $400/year to service maintain and repair.
average daily use 30miles, 312 days/year (weekends as one day)
If gas is $3/gal, and Elio sells 100,000 units at $8K each year and they get used 50% of the driving days.
If Elio's get 80mpg, and go out of service at 10k attrition rate each year, Elio cost half or $200 less to service/maintain each year on the average....

At 50% use, 100k units each year;
The US public would save $2 billion the first year, but by year ten the total savings would be 17.3 billion.
One person saves $17.8k the first year and $23,2k by year ten if the Elio is still in the game.
But for some people, at 100% use,
One person saves $19.6k the first year and $29,8k by year ten. Buy a new one, repeat.

No pain, all gain.

RSchneider · Oct 11, 2019

AriLea said:
Impact... hmm, some numbers, conservatively, (BTW, I refinanced my cars and other loans into my house. $800/mo savings)

17.5 million cars are sold every year in the USA. On the average each Elio purchased displaces a sedan purchase, no mater what EM says about that, at least somewhere during the life cycle of a driver.

Average cost of a sedan, $25k. Average MPG, 25mpg, $400/year to service maintain and repair.
average daily use 30miles, 312 days/year (weekends as one day)
If gas is $3/gal, and Elio sells 100,000 units at $8K each year and they get used 50% of the driving days.
If Elio's get 80mpg, and go out of service at 10k attrition rate each year, Elio cost half or $200 less to service/maintain each year on the average....

At 50% use, 100k units each year;
The US public would save $2 billion the first year, but by year ten the total savings would be 17.3 billion.
One person saves $17.8k the first year and $23,2k by year ten if the Elio is still in the game.
But for some people, at 100% use,
One person saves $19.6k the first year and $29,8k by year ten. Buy a new one, repeat.

No pain, all gain.

Why are you comparing a $25K sedan vs a $7450 Elio. That's like comparing a $4 quart of fried rice to a $30 meal at a restaurant. How about compare the cheapest new car that exists right now vs an Elio. Then compare the average mileage of each. For example a $12,500 Spark vs a targeted $7450 Elio. That makes more sense because when you are poor, you don't buy a $25K sedan. Then compare something like 34 mpg vs up to 66. If you are that poor and buy a $25K sedan instead of a Spark, then you are bad with money and will never buy an Elio.

RSchneider · Oct 11, 2019

I looked to see what I could buy for that $25K average price for a sedan (this is including S&H which the Elio does not tell us what that will be):
VW Jetta R-Line
Base Nissan Altima
Honda Insight
Base Camry or Prius
Base Optima
Kia Niro

This is what you are comparing against. Plus all are better than 25 mpg for the City, so where you get 25 mpg average you must include high end Audi's, MB's and BMW's. The Niro is 49/52. So you need to look at the numbers a bit on the realistic side instead of making the argument that the Elio is going to save people huge amounts of money.

Funding Refused By Paul Elio

Johnny Acree

Elio Addict

AriLea

Elio Addict

Made in USA

Elio Addict

3wheelin

Elio Addict

84mpg

Elio Addict

RSchneider

Elio Addict

RSchneider

Elio Addict

AriLea

Elio Addict

RSchneider

Elio Addict

RSchneider

Elio Addict

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