Achates Engine

[AriLea]

This 'Achates' engine is now going into the F150. It's claimed to be 45% efficient compared to an average of 25% for most engines.

a) So if that tech were applied to the Elio, and going to a smaller displacement for the same power output, in theory you could have a 151 mpg Elio compared to a 25% efficient engine.

However the Elio engine is a bit more efficiently implemented.

b) Let suggest the Elio is an optimistic 30% efficient in this application, then the Achates of same power output could make a 126 mpg result.

c) But the torque and other issues of the Achates design may not be as compatible in an Elio application, plus lets just keep the same displacement and estimate the resulting efficiency equivalency at 40%. That would be a vehicle at 121mpg.

Anyway, seems with Achates tech the worst case seems to be a 110-115mpg Elio. And the best case seems to be 145-155mpg.

But in my car concept? low 150 mpg, high 275mpg.

And then, let's consider Hybrid design....

 

[Made in USA]

There are a lot of other things to consider when talking efficiency. You must look at the whole package. Transmission, axles, wheels, they all effect efficiency. For instance, if you used skinnier tires and put lots of pressure in them, they would have less rolling resistance and improve the vehicles mpg. However, the trade offs are less traction, braking distance will be increased, and the ride might be rough.

That said, Elio might be able to use some of the ideas and make improvements. The Elio engine is still in the developmental stage.

 

[Samalross]

There are a lot of other things to consider when talking efficiency. You must look at the whole package. Transmission, axles, wheels, they all effect efficiency. For instance, if you used skinnier tires and put lots of pressure in them, they would have less rolling resistance and improve the vehicles mpg. However, the trade offs are less traction, braking distance will be increased, and the ride might be rough.

That said, Elio might be able to use some of the ideas and make improvements. The Elio engine is still in the developmental stage.

I saw on Top Gear a SUV that could raise and lower tire pressure. This would be a good concept, if they were able to quickly lower pressure on emergency applications.

 

[RSchneider]

There are lots of things that IAV could have done to the Elio engine but it sounds like that they just went for the cheapest thing they could. As for the Elio engine development, they need to make some major changes to get it to the efficiency of current engines and what will be available in a few years. I do not believe that Elio can afford it at the moment because they have lots of other fish to fry. There's an SAE symposium coming up on Sunday and Monday that covers just ICE. Like in the past, I'll be there yet again. It's interesting to see what could actually make the Elio a superpower in the mpg department but it just comes down to money for the R&D which they do not have. At this point in time Elio just needs to make anything even if it gives 60 mpg. Better something over nothing.

 

[FC]

A very efficient Elio with the late$t technology would be not as successful if it priced itself out of being an "and" car.

 

[booboo]

Looked it up. A 3 "cylinder" full size pick up.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/01/20180118-achates.html

 

[RSchneider]

Looked it up. A 3 "cylinder" full size pick up.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/01/20180118-achates.html

Think about it. Remember when Ford announced they were going to put in a twin turbo, 4 valve, DI motor in an F150? People thought they were nuts. Then to take that engine and use it in the Ford GT. Another one was when Ford decided to make bodies out of aluminum.

It's a good idea that they fit one to an existing F150 because they can now test it like crazy because if there's one vehicle that has the largest R&D budget at Ford, it the F Series. If you want to get anyone's attention, best to try to get it from Ford. They like trying different things instead of keeping the norm.

 

[Elio Amazed]

There are lots of things that IAV could have done to the Elio engine but it sounds like that they just went for the cheapest thing they could.

I think it's more like Elio Motors ran out of money before IAV could complete said engine. As I understand it, IAV had filed a suit for the balance owed on the work they DID get done, and it was settled out of court. IAV was supposed to complete the work on the variable valve system, but according to everything I read, never got a chance due to lack of EM funding.

 

[BaldGuy]

I think it's more like Elio Motors ran out of money before IAV could complete said engine. As I understand it, IAV had filed a suit for the balance owed on the work they DID get done, and it was settled out of court. IAV was supposed to complete the work on the variable valve system, but according to everything I read, never got a chance due to lack of EM funding.

You sure? got links? I thought the IAV engine was a done deal. Granted they didn't pay for it, but they never do pay bills. Hopefully I'm right, or they really do got a lot to do yet.

 

[RSchneider]

You sure? got links? I thought the IAV engine was a done deal. Granted they didn't pay for it, but they never do pay bills. Hopefully I'm right, or they really do got a lot to do yet.

Elio Motors owed IAV $1.6M and did pay it off. From the Elio website:
From 2015

Included in the current liabilities is a note payable due to IAV Automotive Engineering Inc. in the amount of $1,600,000 as payment for research and development work. The note is due December 31, 2015 and secured by a third position security interest in our equipment at the Shreveport facility.

and

These notes, which have offered and sold only to accredited investors, are convertible into shares of our common stock at any time prior to their maturity in 2022 at a conversion price equal to $5.98 per share. Interest of 5% per annum accrues on the unpaid principal balance and all unpaid principal and interest are to be paid at maturity. The notes are secured, but subordinated to the liens of CH Capital Lending, the Racer Trust, and IAV Automotive Engineering.

and

On March 13, 2015, the Company signed an installment payment agreement with IAV Automotive Engineering, Inc. The agreement confirms the balance of the outstanding debt to be $1,323,000 and requires monthly payments of $150,000 to be made on the 15th day of each month with the balance paid in full by December 1, 2015.

By 2017, no mention of IAV for liabilities. So, they were paid as for every other vendor that did work on the car. how that all transpired is another story. When you get to the point of owing that kind of money for a startup, usually the supplier does stop work until they get paid. Where they stopped work is anyone's guess. Since Elio will be spending $85M more on the car, I suspect more will go into the engine.