Achates Engine

[RSchneider]

As for the engine. Even cheap junker cars in India have 4 valve per cylinder and a mid level (which would be like 5 levels above the cheapest car you can get in the US) have DI and variable cam timing. There's a bunch of those 600-999 cc 3 cylinder engines out there in those countries that are installed in cars that nobody would ever buy here in the US. They are junk. Go take a trip there and rent one. It's quite the experience.

 

[Samalross]

As for the engine. Even cheap junker cars in India have 4 valve per cylinder and a mid level (which would be like 5 levels above the cheapest car you can get in the US) have DI and variable cam timing. There's a bunch of those 600-999 cc 3 cylinder engines out there in those countries that are installed in cars that nobody would ever buy here in the US. They are junk. Go take a trip there and rent one. It's quite the experience.

Are the engines good in these cars, or are they junk also? If they are any good, Elio could start with them until they have enough money to make their own.

 

[Elio Amazed]

You sure? got links? I thought the IAV engine was a done deal. Granted they didn't pay for it, but they never do pay bills. Hopefully I'm right, or they really do got a lot to do yet.

I'm sure. The variable valve system work was never completed. They've been running the motor without it.
I really don't have any interest in investing the time it would take to find the links. Sorry man. They're there.
You'll have to look it up yourself, wonder, or wait till someone else with the links handy posts them.

And RS, IAV did file a suit on that $1.6M and, yes they came to that agreement after they filed.

 

[Samalross]

I'm sure. The variable valve system work was never completed. They've been running the motor without it.
I really don't have any interest in investing the time it would take to find the links. Sorry man. They're there.
You'll have to look it up yourself, wonder, or wait till someone else with the links handy posts them.

And RS, IAV did file a suit on that $1.6M and, yes they came to that agreement after they filed.

Too bad RickB left, he was amazing at finding links

 

[RSchneider]

I'm sure. The variable valve system work was never completed.

I don;t think it would be that hard for the Variocam (which is what they were going to do or have done). It's used on plenty of VW and Porsche products. VW uses it on about half of their E888 engines which goes into about everything the make nowadays. mainly, you have to have an oil feed cast into the head to a solenoid which then opens and closes to either move a pin in and out and gives you two different cam profiles. Mix that with variable cam timing with two individual cams, DI and 4 valve per cylinder and then top it off with a turbo, you have an engine that's pretty efficient for the amount of power it makes and quite versatile. The one neat thing VW has done is this (which makes it a pretty small package for what the engine is):

 

[RSchneider]

Are the engines good in these cars, or are they junk also? If they are any good, Elio could start with them until they have enough money to make their own.

The cars have a rough life in India and they are not known for maintenance. Also, a cheap new car is equivalent to around $5500 USD and a $7500 USD one is like a Mitsubishi Mirage in the states. In India, $5500 is a lot of money and $7500 is even more. An engineer I was working with bought a used Mitsubishi Pajero for $10K and he's like super rich compared to most in India. He also has a $7500 Honda that's new and again, that like someone here having two a brand New X5 and a 3 series BMW in their driveway here in the US.

The cars are just basic and for them, it's the most cubic feet they can get for the least amount of square feet it takes up on the road. Plus you better have an industrial strength horn because they use them all of the time. It reminds me of like in Mexico where cars over 10 years old are just dilapidated and something you'd get pulled over here for trying to operate on public roads. I have a feeling there's no reason to make something expensive because it has a limited life due to it's driving conditions. It's almost like a delivery truck or taxi in NYC. In 5 years they look like they aged 20. Even in those countries they are having to change because of emissions and this why 4 valve and variable cam. Even many of the cheap cars have an option of gasoline or CNG for fuel.

As for the engines, I suspect, they probably outlast the rest of the car just like here in the US. This is why there are an excess of used engines here because engines are not like in the old days where at 50K miles they were burning oil and needed lots of maintenance and by 100K needed a rebuild. 300K on a motor today is normal (if the rest of the car lasts that long).

 

[AriLea]

Well, even if Elio can't improve the current engine right now, a couple years into production, I'm sure they could. And such an event is a nice opportunity to re-popularize the product.

And If I/we are right about the popularity, some very weird things could happen. Depending on just how popular the Elio is; GM, Tesla, Toyota, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, one of those would have to come out with their own. Depending on that resulting popularity most of the others would have to follow. But Tesla? Certainly if a $35k Tesla exists, it would seem a $15K 2F1R Autocycle would be a profitable and popular model.

You tell me which is the most likely producer to take up an autocycle product first? Most likely not GM or Ford. Although if the Achates tech can't be matched, this leaves Ford with the possibility of grabbing the prize with the top efficiency autocycle the market, leaving others to fight for the lowest priced autocycle. However, low price and low operating costs are the driving factors for Elio's market. Oh, Oh yes, yes like the Smart Car initially it will be the novelty and things like green credentials. But marginal marketing like that only served the Smart for just so long. Eventually they had to serve the practical minded.

And just like the progression during the 'bubble-car' age after WWII, they are now constantly expanding the platform of the mini's and well as the Smart clones we have now. Some day there will be again an opening at the micro-car end of things.

As for EV in the Autocycle formula, of course EV and hybrid implementation is practically speaking a separate market from ICE, well almost. So I could see Tesla jumping in the game for their customer base given Brand recognition they have.

But if Elio never produces, this competition won't likely happen in any volume. There will certainly be some exploitation of the autocycle definition Elio has left as a legacy. But that's hard to bridge into a high volume agency.

Sorry, strategic fantasy imagineering is just how I think. I does seem to serve my programming side very well. :-)