Cedar Rapids, Ia Jul 17, 2015 - Jul 19, Cedar

[Buckeyejake]

Thanks for the updated information.

 

[JEBar]

thanks indeed .... effort much appreciated

 

[Jambe]

TRUCK is not a sufficient answer. I would have pressed for details.

 

[champsman]

TRUCK is not a sufficient answer. I would have pressed for details.

Not all rail auto yards have solid deck unload ramps, as most use the standard 2 rail ramps for cars, therefore eleminating most all rail shipments for all Elio's. EM will still have homework for shipping methods.

 

[Proud to be]

Please ask Jerome how they plan to transport them to the marshaling centers--using auto transports (which don't have a support for the rear wheel) or rail cars. Just 180 cars per day would require more than ~75 auto transports. Then, how will they be moved from the marshaling centers to the stores.

Hi Jambe,

I asked that same question in Nov of 2013 and I was told that EM was working with the Auto Transporters (trucks) and the Railroad Rail cars, so they already had this in the Main plan from the start... if you are going to make a lot of them.. you got to move them out fast...

EM has plans in the future to do 1000 a day... so you would have to be able to move them out fast some how....or they would just jam up at the gate, like a dam... (OK, they may stop before that happens, but, that would be a lot of Elio's at the gate, Red one's, Blue one's, White with spots of Lime Green, it would be like a Beaver's rainbow Trump Tower dam.)

They stated that using the Railroad Rail cars was going to be their main transporters of all the Elio's made, getting a good deal with the Railroads...

All the EM store "Hubs" have to be stationed near tracks... it is the most cost effective way to move them, plus they can place two Elio's, where there was only one car... the same weight as a car... so you could say shipping, is half of the normal cost of moving one car by rail, EM just has to supply the Supports for third wheel for the rail cars and the Auto Transporters ...

From the Hubs to the store is where the Auto Transporters come in... What was told told to me, is each Hub would have two Auto Transporters to make a couple of runs per day, or how many it takes... they hinted that it was one of the many side jobs that would come from the EM stores opening in different areas across this Elio Nation...

So if you said 180 cars per day, that would be 360 Elio's... per day.... Their plan sounded like a good idea to me then... as it does now...

As always I could be wrong... but I don't think so.. hang in there... Elio Motors wants this to work.... that is the "Main idea"...

Proud to Be a member of Elio Nation #2225Z see ya on the road...

 

[JEBar]

Just back from attending the Elio Tour in Cedar Rapids, IA.

Progress on the P5 Build. Projecting for completion? Jerome said "By the end of the year" I asked "Seriously?", he said "Yep". One of the other Elio people there said the 'skeleton' of the P5 was built, which I'd assume means the frame and roll cage. I'm guessing Jerome didn't want to commit to anything specific. Paul has indicated that. too. Tired of getting beat up for missing target dates.

that makes sense to me .... there isn't any use in giving the doom and gloom haters any more info to twist than is absolutely necessary

Estimated time frame for crowdfunding to release terms and start collecting money?

Jerome said after July, but also indicated they were restricted as to what they can say. I got the impression he meant soon after July, but technically, December is after July, so I'm not sure he committed to anything.

after July sounds reasonable .... there is no doubt that EM wants the money ASAP

How they plan on transporting them to the marshaling centers?

Truck

no surprise but at peek production, that's going to take a bunch of trucks

I asked if the P5-P30 would all be hand built, and he indicated they would. He said the P5 and some of the following vehicles would have fiberglass bodies, but at some point they'd switch to the plastic sheet bodies, as that's a requirement for the crash test vehicles. He also indicated not all the P Series vehicles would have a real engine. The units targeted for crash testing would have weight representative to the engine, but not an actual engine.

not using the IAV engine in the crash vehicles makes major sense to me

In general, one message was the end of July is big. That's when what they were calling the 'Final' Supplier Summit takes place, plus it certainly sounded like that's when they expected the Public Funding to move forward. There were comments made that the design needed to be pretty much final at that point so suppliers, particularly 'add on' suppliers, could start working on all their bits and pieces.

in every project there comes a time when they have to tell the engineers to stop so that they can get down to production .... it appears that time is rapidly approaching

In their usually vague language, they seemed confident that they were going to pull funding together.

while they have to present a picture of confidence, I believe that its for real .... my hope is somewhere down the line someone writes a book covering the inner workings during EM's march toward production

I'm not anti Elgin dash as a rule, but I certainly didn't like the prototype they had there (the P4 still has the old dash, what StartEngine has is apparently photoshopped). It has numbers every 20 MPH (20, 40, 60, 80) with a tick mark for the Odd decades (30, 50, 70). I asked how the heck you were supposed to set it to 35, or 55, when all you had to go by was somewhere between a tick mark and the middle of the next number. The guy I talked to said he didn't know. The picture in the StartEngine page shows a '10' and a tick mark. Hopefully the tick mark is '15' and not '20'. If not, I might quickly become anti Elgin Dash. As picky as some speed traps are, you have to be able to determine 25, or 35, or any5 on your speedometer.

I have been since day one and remain anti Elgin .... it is the only part of the project I feel that way about

It will have Daytime Running lights, per Jerome.

first time I've heard this and am happy they will have them

I asked the current thinking on Power Steering. Nearly every Press test drive I've seen they've commented on how hard the steering was. I was told that was a factor of tire size/weight, and inflation pressure and that the production setup would be easy to steer. It did sound as if there would be an electric power steering option.

I suspect that power steering, cruise control, and automatic transmission will be among their top options ordered .... for me, cruise and an AMT are a must .... I want to hear use reports from folks with low reservation numbers before making a decision on power steering

Apparently there has at least been discussion about a rig that would mount on the doorless side that could haul a bicycle, surfboard, or even a kayak

more new news .... I can see how off door side storage could be well used

There was a discussion about pulling a trailer. The comment was made that the transmission was a factor in that, too (I've never seen mention of that here). That makes sense to me.

the transmission would most certainly be a concern .... it will be interesting to see how easy it will be add a transmission cooler

thanks again for getting the info

 

[Ekh]

I'll be there. Drove 250 miles to see it last year in Chicago. This one is 12 miles! I can hang out there as long as it takes.

Fire any questions you have this way and I'll see what I can do.

Here's a few to shoehorn in somewhere:

1. Suspension mods from P4 to P5?
2. What's the status on states that by law don't permit factory-owned distributors, such as Ohio (especially Ohio). What's Plan B?
3. How much money is now needed 1. To complete the P series and associated testing. 2. To complete the rest of tool-up and be ready to start the assembly line? "Now needed" means in addition to funds already committed or received.
4. How much money has been raised through private placement (Section 506 program)?
5. How much of the surplus equipment has actually been sold, and what's the status on the rest of it?
6. Any further word on the turbo program? Paul has said that it will be retro-installable by the factory or Pep Boys. Any detail on that?
7. When do we start seeing options other than plastic trim and Skyzmatic listed on the Elio website?
8. How will the prototype engines be built -- as a run-up for manufacturing processes, or purely hand-built?
9. Was the original IAV engine run to destruction? What results did the testing show, and what changes are being made (if any) for the actual production engine?
10. What's being done to abate cabin noise from the suspension and especially the rear wheel?

I'm sure I have a few more, but these should hold you for a while!

Well, I see I missed the boat. If someone else has a chance to ask these now or later, have at it.

 

[ecdriver711]

Just back from attending the Elio Tour in Cedar Rapids, IA. They had a decent, steady crowd the 2 hours I was there. The line to sit in the Elio was usually less than 10 people, but there was always someone in it. Quite a few Future Elio Owners and quite a few people saying "What is That?".

The questions I was asked to ask:

Progress on the P5 Build. Projecting for completion? Jerome said "By the end of the year" I asked "Seriously?", he said "Yep". One of the other Elio people there said the 'skeleton' of the P5 was built, which I'd assume means the frame and roll cage. I'm guessing Jerome didn't want to commit to anything specific. Paul has indicated that. too. Tired of getting beat up for missing target dates.

Estimated time frame for crowdfunding to release terms and start collecting money? Jerome said after July, but also indicated they were restricted as to what they can say. I got the impression he meant soon after July, but technically, December is after July, so I'm not sure he committed to anything.

How goes the surplus equipment sale? Jerome said "Slow" He said it likely would stay that way, then they'd sell a lot of it to someone looking to set up a new line, somewhere. No way to predict when that would happen

What kind of White color will EM have for the white option? Jerome said it wouldn't be a pearl white, not a metallic. Didn't know more than that.

How they plan on transporting them to the marshaling centers? Truck

When will Elio come out with a priced out list of available options? I know IAFarmer reported above 10 months prior to production starting, but Jerome flatly denied sayoing that. He indicated he wasn't even there yesterday. There was another guy there, Rudy, who was talking much more positive about things like that. Actually picked up quite a few things from him and others (below). He might have said that, but Jerome said he didn't. He said that options would be sold by the various vendors and there would be no way to catalog them all. We might have had a disconnect on 'options', I don't know.

I asked if the P5-P30 would all be hand built, and he indicated they would. He said the P5 and some of the following vehicles would have fiberglass bodies, but at some point they'd switch to the plastic sheet bodies, as that's a requirement for the crash test vehicles. He also indicated not all the P Series vehicles would have a real engine. The units targeted for crash testing would have weight representative to the engine, but not an actual engine.

One other Elio rep indicated that each P vehicle would have three different features unique to it. He mentioned hood latch, trunk latch, things like that where they want to try various options before making a final decision.

In general, one message was the end of July is big. That's when what they were calling the 'Final' Supplier Summit takes place, plus it certainly sounded like that's when they expected the Public Funding to move forward. There were comments made that the design needed to be pretty much final at that point so suppliers, particularly 'add on' suppliers, could start working on all their bits and pieces.

In their usually vague language, they seemed confident that they were going to pull funding together. Lots of "I can discuss the detail" stuff, as usual. Rudy is one of the original investors, from the very start. He seemed to know a lot of details. I couldn't get out of him what his role in Elio was except doing the tour. I didn't see him when we saw the Elio in Chicago a year ago, but everyone gets a day off now and then.

They were not lifting the hood at all. They didn't want people seeing the old Metro engine. They didn't have the plastic engine mock up I've seen in the past, but did have a poster with the new engine on it. That poster said it will produce 60 HP (still 55 Foot Pounds of Torque). Originally it was 55 HP. I missed when that changed. Stil sayin over 100 MPH for the top speed, under 10 seconds to 60 MPH.

I'm not anti Elgin dash as a rule, but I certainly didn't like the prototype they had there (the P4 still has the old dash, what StartEngine has is apparently photoshopped). It has numbers every 20 MPH (20, 40, 60, 80) with a tick mark for the Odd decades (30, 50, 70). I asked how the heck you were supposed to set it to 35, or 55, when all you had to go by was somewhere between a tick mark and the middle of the next number. The guy I talked to said he didn't know. The picture in the StartEngine page shows a '10' and a tick mark. Hopefully the tick mark is '15' and not '20'. If not, I might quickly become anti Elgin Dash. As picky as some speed traps are, you have to be able to determine 25, or 35, or any5 on your speedometer.

It will have Daytime Running lights, per Jerome.

I asked about tires. I know first hand that Honda puts hard tread, low rolling resistance tires on new Civics to get better gas mileage. First time you hit snow or ice is an adventure (and every time after that, too). Jerome said he was from Michigan and understood exactly what I was saying, but didn't know what or if there would be any tire options. He also agreed when I stated a preference for a standard size tire so you can go pretty much anywhere and get a different tire if you want, even have summer and winter tires if necessary. If these are custom Cooper tires, that rules out getting a set of Blizzaks for wintertime driving. At least ones the 'proper' size. Also rules out going to Goodyear or Walmart for a new set of tires.

I asked the current thinking on Power Steering. Nearly every Press test drive I've seen they've commented on how hard the steering was. I was told that was a factor of tire size/weight, and inflation pressure and that the production setup would be easy to steer. It did sound as if there would be an electric power steering option. We've heard that before.

Now for the wild stuff I heard (to me at least), just eavesdropping on various conversations. All of these were said by Elio employees, but I certainly wouldn't believe all of them just quite yet:

There has been discussion about a "full rise glass top" option, replacing the colored roof panel with something transparent. I have no details, but I heard that much. I could see some sort of LCD based top that you could darken or lighten as needed. Probably would rule out a Sun or Moon roof (or might be classified as a Full Moon roof).

Someone is working on a Luggage Rack that would mount on the roof, as well as some sort of rack that mounts on the trunk lid for attaching stuff

Apparently there has at least been discussion about a rig that would mount on the doorless side that could haul a bicycle, surfboard, or even a kayak

There was a discussion about pulling a trailer. The comment was made that the transmission was a factor in that, too (I've never seen mention of that here). That makes sense to me. My wife has a Subaru Impreza Wagon. It's not rated to pull a trailer. The Subaru CrossTrek, which is pretty much the same car only with 2" more ground clearance (and $2,000 higher price), is rated for pulling a trailer. The difference is the CrossTrek has a transmission cooler. From today's discussion, apparently Harley Davidson has warranty restrictions if you have a trailer hitch. The discussion was that at some point there might be a formula/limit (Elio GVW with occupants PLUS trailer weight) that might be recommended. I know I've heard that Subaru can refuse warranty claims on the transmission on an Impreza if the car has a hitch, and a quick Google search says Harley does, too. The future Elio owners holding that conversation indicated they weren't gonna let the warranty stop them from hooking up a trailer.

I think that's all. I'll update if I remember anything else. I[m sure I forgot something or other.

Great job, Bilbo

 

[satx]

There's been tremendous evolution in the mfg equipment, robotics, etc since the Hummer factory was equipped. Not surprised that old junk is selling slowly, if at all.

 

[Jim H]

Bilbo B thanks for the great update. Still a lot of unknowns but your questions should keep them working to build a good vehicle