Ray O
Elio Addict
In some motorcycles they use CVT drive trains and they use electric to go into reverse. This could save weight and increase MPG.
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Cvt Drive Train
- Thread starter Ray O
- Start date
There are a number of vehicles on the road today that do use a continuously variable transmission, as well as some from past years. They are best suited to vehicles with lower power engines, which WOULD be well suited to an Elio, but even at that they've ALWAYS been problematic. Despite that the engineers keep trying periodically to get them right, the current incarnations of these transmissions are probably the WORST on the road today for reliability and the cost of repairs are quite high. I haven't seen any data concerning how much more efficient they might be, but I guess there are probably a lot of variables there.
As far as reverse goes, the Elio uses a typical front wheel drivetrain like in any small car, so they are using an off-the-shelf transmission so it will have reverse already with negligable impact on weight. I believe a cvt tranny WAS in the running but was rejected so far as I know. Hopefully they wouldn't go with something unreliable.
CheeseheadEarl
Elio Addict
CVTs are becoming popular in farm tractors. They're hard to beat there, programmed to hold either max load/speed at optimum engine speed, or hold a constant speed with minimum power and fuel. They are expensive to build, lots of intricate machining. This is much less a problem on a 150K machine than a $6800 one.
Apparently, weight is an issue too, which is why they havent made it to OTR trucks. Automated manuals (like the Elio AMT, only bigger with more gears) are becoming the norm there.
Apparently, weight is an issue too, which is why they havent made it to OTR trucks. Automated manuals (like the Elio AMT, only bigger with more gears) are becoming the norm there.
zelio
Elio Addict
Hi and welcome from Oregon, Ray O. You will find a very active group of Ohioans on this forum so you can expect to be contacted. I hope you enjoy this forum as we watch progress towards Elio production and ownership. See you next year while out driving my Elio. :-) Z
Gas-Powered Awesome
Elio Addict
I'm not sure where you are getting your data, but in Honda's at-least they are highly reliable.
In the 2000-2006 Insight the CVT routinely goes 250-300,000+ miles without overhaul. Meanwhile the 5-speed manual struggles to get past 150,000 without eating the input shaft bearing or grinding 2nd and 3rd into dust. If the CVT needs overhaul, all the parts are about $500 and it's easier to rebuild than a standard automatic. The CVT is the winner there. The Insight is about 1300 lb with a driver and has a 67 HP engine plus 13 HP electric induction motor in series.
CVTs are less efficient than manuals (automatically shifted or not), but significantly more efficient than slush-box (torque converter) automatics. I expect we'll see fewer CVTs as automatically-shifted manuals mature and gain more gear ratios, but mostly because of cost, not reliability.
Charlie G
Elio Addict
I have a CVT in my 2.0 Subaru Impreza with AWD. I get around 34MPG, not too shabby.
It takes some getting used to the way it shifts (or more accurately doesn't), but I don't mind it at all.
It takes some getting used to the way it shifts (or more accurately doesn't), but I don't mind it at all.
I don't like to draw conclusions from anecdotal evidence in most cases, but for some reason I can't find access to any hard data concerning the failure rate of ANY automotive components, which one would think should be easily accessable these days. So most of what I know of these trannys stems from looking at vehicle specs and reliability/history data while searching for a decently priced, (that means cheap), efficient, (better than 30mpg), used car.
So first, I'm operating under the assumption that Elio will NOT be buying trannys of any kind from HONDA. While they have great record for reliability, though not in my personal experience, they do tendto be on the pricey side in general. Which does not fit the price goal, and, strike two, NOT American. Much the same can be said of the Subaru offerings, which are reported to be reasonably reliable if somewhat sluggish, NOT something most Elio fans would look foreward to.
So, I'm thinking along the lines of the CVT's that went into GM's small cars like the Saturn's, the neons, the cobalt, etc... I'm not sure what else they put them in off the top of my head. They eventually STOPPED using them. I even recall something about lawsuits over them. So yes, my comment was kind of addressed to American CVT trannys, of the sort which might ACTUALLY be put into an Elio.
Actually, in more recent times I seem to recall something about many of the big producers bringing in their CVT production under one company, I assume because they were doing so well with it on their own. I guess I'll have to do some research to get all the details when I get a chance.
In the meantime, does anyone have any good candidates to recommend for an Elio CVT? Something American, in a CAR, that would be cheap enough and has shown good reliability?
Gas-Powered Awesome
Elio Addict
Well GM went out of business, so no CVTs from them! 
I'm pretty sure the Elio will NOT have a CVT for some of the reasons you stated. Namely expensive and not US-made. I think Paul has already said it will be an automatically-shifted manual. No torque converter to soak up all the gas and what little power the engine will make.
I'm pretty sure the Elio will NOT have a CVT for some of the reasons you stated. Namely expensive and not US-made. I think Paul has already said it will be an automatically-shifted manual. No torque converter to soak up all the gas and what little power the engine will make.
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