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Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by AriLea, Jul 13, 2015.
Did you get the blinker fluid filled?
It's on back order from Audi
Is that an 8 cylinder?
At first I thought it was a typical 4 cylinder, with the carbs at a weird angle (typical Audi)
Looking at it now, it appears to be a V8.
4.2 v8 with timing chains in the back! They say it should be a lifetime system,,, but plastic don't last that long.
The fwd axles are just behind the clutch, so most of the engine is in front of the front wheels. The car has about 60% front weight bias. Not great for a sports car, but it's a v8.!
Lifetime? They just don't mention whose lifetime. If it's plastic, it's the lifetime of the chain, if it was metal, it's the lifetime of the car.
4.2, nice, what's the recommended red line? Or should I say, where do they put the rev-limiter too? With a 4.2, it should be around 6500-7000
Of course that means it would take more, but they don't want the responsibility, hence, it's where the rev-limiter is set.
The chain is metal but the guides are plastic and the tensioners can fail too. My 2008 MINI Cooper S had similar issues but took a lot less to get to them. Having to take the whole engine out for the replacement on those Audis, that is NUTS! So glad that you can do it yourself!
VW/Audi have had their fair share of timing chain issues. Just like that Audi engine, the VR6 VW engine has the chains on the back. So you can either pull the transmission and then with the engine disassembly, you are 98% of the way to just pulling the motor. So, it's just better to pull the whole unit. For the VR6, VW has had more than one issue.. Normally the lower rails just saw themselves away, the idler sprocket wears all of the teeth off of it or the final one is on a certain period of time, the sprocket on the crankshaft wears all of the teeth off of it (which means a new crank). Top it all off, they utilize the same cam phaser plate that has this little screen in it that breaks off then gets jammed into the phaser and thus check engine light because it can't adjust the cam timing. Best part is that a number of companies sell the complete timing chain kits, that tells you how many fail. Plus there are plenty of videos of people showing you how to do it.
So the W12,W8, V8, VR6 all fail, it's just when. Top it off, VW/Audi had a class action lawsuit against them on the older 2.0l Turbo 4 because of timing chain tensioner failures. Supposedly they came up with a program where they will pay for the failures.
For some reason, Porsche and BMW seem to have really good timing chain systems. Probably because both companies have lots of experience with it and VW/Audi were newbies. So, when people say that timing chains/rails never fail and belts are junk, make sure you are not talking to a VW/Audi owner.
Here's a pic of the elaborate system on the 4.2l V8:
'Rube Goldberg' comes to mind!
That engine looks so very German:
Why use 3 parts when I can do the same job with 30?
Interesting part is that I had two Porsche 928's. The second one was a 4 valve motor. The cams, water pump and oil pump all ran off of a single belt. It was replaced once and not that hard to do. My BMW Z4 had a single double row chain with two guide rails. It just ran the two cams and that's it. Never a problem and I never even hear of a problem with that engine and timing chains.
VW owns the controlling interest in IAV. So when I heard the Elio was going to have a timing belt, I knew that was the way to go because IAV does design the VW/Audi motors too and you see the luck they have with timing chains. When we were in the belt vs chain discussion, people assume that chains are forever buy not the case if it's something IAV designs.
I do know what the VW/Audi problem is. They use single row and these extra long guide rails. So the chain stretches and the guide rails are so long that a small amount of wear equals much more slack the tensioner has to take up. One of my customers had about 30 VW and Audi motors all with failed systems. They were using the OEM parts to make aftermarket ones that were better. They knew what the problem was because most run out of adjustment on the tensioner and then the chain saws itself into the guide rails. They figured out that the rails were made with a certain resin to keep down chain noise but not so good on wear. I know the replacement parts have a harder resin and will cause more noise but in the end, customers will never notice (especially with an older car).