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Does The Government Really Care How Much Gas We Burn?

RonnieB

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Currently I think the government is concerned with the emissions per gallon not how many gallons we burn. I have heard of diesel engines that get 65plus MPG that they use in Europe but the US government will not let us have them because of the emissions per gallon are to high. Solution by GOVERNMENT.......burn more diesel!!!! If I am wrong please correct me.
 

McBrew

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Currently I think the government is concerned with the emissions per gallon not how many gallons we burn. I have heard of diesel engines that get 65plus MPG that they use in Europe but the US government will not let us have them because of the emissions per gallon are to high. Solution by GOVERNMENT.......burn more diesel!!!! If I am wrong please correct me.

The issue, right or wrong, is that Europe is mainly concerned with CO2 emissions, while the US is more concerned with NOx emissions. All other hugs being equal, diesels tend to be lower in CO2 emissions (fewer gallons burned), while gas engines can control NOx emissions more easily.

New diesel exhaust after treatments (DEF) can reduce NOx emissions, but it seems like auto manufacturers are having a hard time getting the diesel emissions systems to work properly -- just ask VW, Fiat/Chrysler, et al.

If reducing fuel consumption is the primary goal, then the cheapest solution is probably turbocharged gasoline engines. I don't mean slapping a turbo on a V8 engine, but rather replacing the V8 with a turbo 4 or 6 that produces the same horsepower. Turbocharged engines are super reliable these days.

My daily driver has a 1.4 liter turbo gas engine that puts out 160 horsepower stock, but is also tuned to well over 200 horsepower in other models. That's more horsepower than a 1985 Corvette with a 5.7 liter V8.


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Rob Croson

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I have heard of diesel engines that get 65plus MPG that they use in Europe but the US government will not let us have them because of the emissions per gallon are to high.
IIRC, people have commented that the ultra-high mileage vehicles that are being sold in Europe can't be sold in the US because those vehicles don't meet all the safety and regulatory requirements imposed by the US. If you make them meet all those requirements, they don't get the same mileage, and the cost goes way up.

Here's something for you to think about: Why does the Elio only have three wheels? (Hint: The answer is NOT because it saves them the expense of having to buy that fourth wheel, or that it is the magical ingredient to 84 MPG.) I don't think a lot of people understand the full significance behind why the Elio has three wheels instead of four.
 

Coss

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........I don't think a lot of people understand the full significance behind why the Elio has three wheels instead of four.
Oh, you mean like 5mph crash resistant bumpers front and rear? Emission tests. Full crash testing that they all have to meet.
The same reasons that a lot of cars from the UK and EU and Asia aren't imported; they can't meet Federal Safety and Emission testing.
Those rules?
 

Rob Croson

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Oh, you mean like 5mph crash resistant bumpers front and rear? Emission tests. Full crash testing that they all have to meet.
The same reasons that a lot of cars from the UK and EU and Asia aren't imported; they can't meet Federal Safety and Emission testing.
Those rules?
Give that man a cigar. :thumb:

The cost of one wheel is negligible, in the overall scope of things. With everyone saying "as long as you release it for under $10k, it's a winner!", adding a couple hundred bucks for a fourth wheel is no big deal. You'd also be able to use more standard parts instead of some custom work Elio had to make up, and increase the internal volume for more cargo, or whatever. And the aero shouldn't be too bad if you duplicate the front pods in the back for that true old-fashioned roadster look that lots of people would go crazy over anyway. Talk about retro!

It's the motorcycle classification, and the resulting exemption from so many rules and regulations that govern the automobile industry. That's why there are so many new companies coming out with three-wheeled vehicles. They are using the federal motorcycle classification to exempt themselves from all the crap that the auto industry has to go through to get a four-wheeler out the door, and skipping all the associated costs that go with it. Three wheels lets them skip all the expensive stuff. Unfortunately it also lets them skip a lot of the safety stuff that makes cars so expensive. Like the crumple zones, crash testing, air bags, and lots more stuff I probably am not aware of in the first place. I don't know if I'd buy an Elio if it weren't for the air bags, ABS, traction control, and crash testing. That's why I really hope they pass that autocycle legislation with requirements for three-wheeled vehicles. If too many unsafe three wheeled vehicles get out on the roads and start getting hurt, it's going to make the whole three-wheeled vehicle market look bad, and there will of course be a governmental overreaction from some shyster looking for an issue to push to drum up some votes.
 

WilliamH

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Give that man a cigar. :thumb:

The cost of one wheel is negligible, in the overall scope of things. With everyone saying "as long as you release it for under $10k, it's a winner!", adding a couple hundred bucks for a fourth wheel is no big deal. You'd also be able to use more standard parts instead of some custom work Elio had to make up, and increase the internal volume for more cargo, or whatever. And the aero shouldn't be too bad if you duplicate the front pods in the back for that true old-fashioned roadster look that lots of people would go crazy over anyway. Talk about retro!

It's the motorcycle classification, and the resulting exemption from so many rules and regulations that govern the automobile industry. That's why there are so many new companies coming out with three-wheeled vehicles. They are using the federal motorcycle classification to exempt themselves from all the crap that the auto industry has to go through to get a four-wheeler out the door, and skipping all the associated costs that go with it. Three wheels lets them skip all the expensive stuff. Unfortunately it also lets them skip a lot of the safety stuff that makes cars so expensive. Like the crumple zones, crash testing, air bags, and lots more stuff I probably am not aware of in the first place. I don't know if I'd buy an Elio if it weren't for the air bags, ABS, traction control, and crash testing. That's why I really hope they pass that autocycle legislation with requirements for three-wheeled vehicles. If too many unsafe three wheeled vehicles get out on the roads and start getting hurt, it's going to make the whole three-wheeled vehicle market look bad, and there will of course be a governmental overreaction from some shyster looking for an issue to push to drum up some votes.

Was this the type of classic rear end treatment you were talking about?
upload_2016-10-11_17-32-52.jpeg

1935 AUBURN BOATTAIL SPEEDSTER RE-CREATION
 

Marshall

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It's been a while, and I don't recall all the details, but remember the plan to get the old gas guzzlers off the roads? You know, I think it was back in the first year of this administration.

If I remember correctly the net result was that people got paid a stupidly high price for their old junky gas burner so they could go out and get a new junky gas burner on the cheap. Real good plan.... :crazy:

If I could have arranged to play "Fuhrer for a Day" and call the shots for the government, this is what I would have done instead. It's not complicated.

1. Create federal sales tax rates for cars based on their mileage. The lower the mileage the more the tax. Let's say from $10.000,00 down to $0.
2. Collect all that cash from the Hummer, giant SUV etc., buyers.
3. Use that tax money to subsidize the cost of manufacture of high mileage cars.

So, the guy who wants to toodle around in his Hummer would have paid $10,000.00 tax on it and the guy driving his Elio would have bought it with no tax and $1,000.00 cheaper because of the subsidy. Somehow I think there would be more economical cars and fewer gas guzzlers on America's roads. Net result, we use less gas.

Detroit would hate it.
Ok, tell me why it wouldn't work. :fencing:


political reference edited
The problem with that plan is that the worst offenders are those who cannot afford the tax. Those old gas guzzlers (as opposed to new gas guzzlers) are primarily purchased because that is all the buyer can afford. Taxing them would be taxing the poor. We stopped doing that long ago.
 
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