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Electric, Nope, Fuel Cells Is The Future

Samalross

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Made in USA

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Well of course a Tesla engineer will say they have the best and the rest suck. My problem with Tesla (and others) is that they have too much proprietary technology. It means that only they can work on them. All the auto parts stores that sell replacement parts will be out of business. You might be able to get tires and windshield wipers, but not much else.

Here's a little rant: Ever been called a "Boomer"? It's suppose to be an insult inferring that the younger generation knows what is going on and us older folk should just shut up as we are stuck in the past. These same young people love buying all their "stuff" brand new every few years. They have no concept as to how to be content with what they have. Take furniture for instance. They would rather buy Ikea furniture made out of chip board and is doomed to fall apart. No problem, they will just buy new again. So where is all this broken furniture going? To the dump. Smart aren't they? And how is chip board made? From trees and glue. The wood will recycle (rot), the glue not. So when I hear that Tesla is the only smart choice, I ask myself if parts will be available in ten years or if they are doomed to be scraped/recycled after that. Who will keep the Tesla's running if Tesla fails as a company?
 

johnsnownw

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Well of course a Tesla engineer will say they have the best and the rest suck. My problem with Tesla (and others) is that they have too much proprietary technology. It means that only they can work on them. All the auto parts stores that sell replacement parts will be out of business. You might be able to get tires and windshield wipers, but not much else.

Here's a little rant: Ever been called a "Boomer"? It's suppose to be an insult inferring that the younger generation knows what is going on and us older folk should just shut up as we are stuck in the past. These same young people love buying all their "stuff" brand new every few years. They have no concept as to how to be content with what they have. Take furniture for instance. They would rather buy Ikea furniture made out of chip board and is doomed to fall apart. No problem, they will just buy new again. So where is all this broken furniture going? To the dump. Smart aren't they? And how is chip board made? From trees and glue. The wood will recycle (rot), the glue not. So when I hear that Tesla is the only smart choice, I ask myself if parts will be available in ten years or if they are doomed to be scraped/recycled after that. Who will keep the Tesla's running if Tesla fails as a company?

Tesla doesn't have a lot of proprietary technology, in fact, they released many of their patents...and have since released their parts catalog. What Tesla does have, and I disagree with, is a closed repair structure. You are basically forced to take your vehicle to their SC or approved body shops. I think it's good from the perspective that the SC should be able to best work on your vehicle because it's the only vehicle(s) they work on. However, not everything that needs to be repaired requires Tesla-specific knowledge...it's a car after all...they've been around a fair bit.

If Tesla fails as a company they'll be scooped up by another manufacturer, so there is no concern there for vehicle/parts support.

Strictly speaking, that's not really what "Boomer" was meant to signify. It's a word used to describe a group solely concerned with their own self-interest...which tends to not align with the interests of younger generations. Such as tackling climate change, wealth inequality, employment, etc... There are obviously people that use it and stretch the intent, of course.
 

Coss

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And it looks like Toyota is going to take the lead in alternative fuel source.
Watch Toyota in the near future, they have some plans we should see very soon.
 

voyager

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The heavier/bulkier the vehicle, the more sense H2 makes. Below what battery drive means per passenger:

evolution.jpg
 

Travelbuzz1

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Well of course a Tesla engineer will say they have the best and the rest suck. My problem with Tesla (and others) is that they have too much proprietary technology. It means that only they can work on them. All the auto parts stores that sell replacement parts will be out of business. You might be able to get tires and windshield wipers, but not much else.

Here's a little rant: Ever been called a "Boomer"? It's suppose to be an insult inferring that the younger generation knows what is going on and us older folk should just shut up as we are stuck in the past. These same young people love buying all their "stuff" brand new every few years. They have no concept as to how to be content with what they have. Take furniture for instance. They would rather buy Ikea furniture made out of chip board and is doomed to fall apart. No problem, they will just buy new again. So where is all this broken furniture going? To the dump. Smart aren't they? And how is chip board made? From trees and glue. The wood will recycle (rot), the glue not. So when I hear that Tesla is the only smart choice, I ask myself if parts will be available in ten years or if they are doomed to be scraped/recycled after that. Who will keep the Tesla's running if Tesla fails as a company?
Those in the United States have been a throw away society I believe since the 50's. So, look around you see what you and your friends may have done.
 

Triangles

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LOL and here I though Fool Cells being the future had already been as thoroughly discredited as the flat Earth crowd. It's really quite simple to see fuel cells are a dead end technology for 2 reasons, ok, maybe 3 reasons:

1) The electricity used to produce a given quantity of H2 (electrolysis) would get you further down the road in a BEV than that H2 would get you in a FCV.
2) The cheapest way to make H2 is from fossil fuels, so switching to fool cells wouldn't get us off fossil fuels. Why spend all that money to switch to a more expensive fossil fuel?
3) Probably the #1 reason fuel cells = fool cells is fuel cost. The cost per mile to fuel a FCV is not even remotely close to the cost per mile to fuel a BEV or even a gasoline car. Until someone figures out how to violate the laws of physics and produce H2 in a non-energy intensive fashion, there is zero chance that FCVs will ever be commercially viable because the fuel is too expensive to make.

For example:
Here in Ohio I pay $0.13/kWh for electricity which equates to between $0.03 (summer) and $0.055 (winter) per mile in my Ford Focus Electric (I would be happy to walk you thru the math if you like). A more efficient EV like the Hyundai Ioniq or a Tesla would be even cheaper per mile. My previous vehicle, a Ford Escort ZX2 cost about $0.09 per mile in fuel (also happy to show my math). According to these California proponents of FCVs it costs $0.21 per mile to fuel a FCV. I'm skeptical that this may be low. According to this 6 month evaluation a Toyota Murai costs $0.26/mile which is a full 5 cents more per mile than what the California group came up with for a typical FCV. It's close but the difference is still more than it costs to fuel my EV most of the time. Either way, $0.21/mile or $0.26/mile is several times more expensive than a BEV. Hell, the fuel cost alone is an argument for sticking with good old fashioned gasoline!
 
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voyager

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Despite the double conversion (first generate H2, then have it react with oxygen to propel an electric motor), the very interesting thing about H2 is of course the quick fill up and the possibility of storing surplus renewable energy in the form of H2 (after electrolysis). Scotland was able to generate twice the amount of green energy last year than it needed. The Netherlands is seriously looking into converting its natural gas infrastructure for distributing H2. Reason why Shell is also looking into this.
 
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