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Electrical Help Please?

Frim

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It's not.

Though you're going to call in a professional electrician... depending on your laws and ordinances...
You'll likely still legally have to bring in and pay an inspector to approve it all after the installation.
In some states and localities, it's illegal for a homeowner to replace an outlet or light switch.

My 2 cents. You did not say if this was a rural coop installation. Some rural coops use the suspension wire for a neutral. Then they ground the neutral bar in the meter box. Thus a grounded neutral is not uncommon in the countryside. Neutrals in branch circuitry should not be grounded because they do carry current. Only the ground (Green or Bare) can protect you from shock (been bit:eek:).
 

WilliamH

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Yeah, I went back and looked over it again and you're right.
But... He also then told Seth there's a whole lot wrong with his box.
Which there isn't. Moving the grounds and neutrals to their proper sides...
Is all I see that needs to be done. The odds of trouble because of that are slim.

There are probably still a few million older boxes in this country that only have one bar for both ground and neutral.

Should he really be telling someone who's likely never seen the inside of a box before...
How to install and wire a 240 volt breaker in that box over the internet?

A lot can be lost in the translation to a complete nubee.
Besides the fact that in Seth's area it might be illegal for him to do the work to begin with.

That's the main problem I have with it.

The only time I knew of where neutral and ground required separate buses is where the box was a sub feed.
Last time I did a split bus job was sometime in the '80s. Had to put in a couple of new buses and did about two weeks pre planing to make sure I got it right. Definitely not a job for someone with no experience. Had I not had several years experience as the installation acceptance man at an AT&T central office covering Western Electric jobs there is no way I would have tried it alone.
 

Rob Croson

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From what I understand, there is no difference between Ground and Neutral "upstream" from the box (sorry I don't know the right word). However, once you get to the breaker box, they need to be distinct in order to keep load off of the Ground.
This is partially correct, or perhaps a correct concept just not stated clearly. Neutral and Ground inside your main electrical panel are the same thing. (The main electrical panel is the one where the wires from the service meter connect first.) It is quite common to tie both the neutral (white) and ground (green or bare) wires to the exact same terminal strip or set of strips. Some OCD people may keep them connected to separate terminal strips inside the main electrical panel, but that's unnecessary since they are electrically identical. Electrical code requires neutral to ground bonding in your main electrical panel.

Once you leave your main electrical box, however, the two wires *must* remain separate! If you install auxiliary distribution panel, such as for a second floor, garage, workshop, etc., that panel must keep grounds and neutrals separate, so as to prevent the ground wires from the aux panel to the main panel from carrying current.

As always, check your local electric code, as specific methods and laws may vary. If you are living in a multi-unit dwelling, especially an old one, or something that has been converted from single service to multiple service, things can get very complicated.

This is a good description of neutral-to-ground bonding:
http://www.esgroundingsolutions.com...eutral-and-the-ground-wire-in-the-main-panel/

And this forum thread may help explain:
https://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/ground-and-neutral-bonded-service-box-25185/

Your decision to call an electrician is a smart move. It may be a bit more expensive right now, but it can save you a lot of hassle and danger.
 

Ty

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I agree with the above recommendation/commendation to hire an electrician in this case. Anytime you aren't sure, it's a good idea to defer to the experts. I've installed fans, lights, switches, walls with electric, and all manner of things. But, I DO know my limitations. If it looks like a mess, it probably is. I'd probably do the install myself in your situation but... hmm... depends on how much of a pain the location of the new plug is. But, I would never use individual wires inside the walls though. Ever.
 

Elio Amazed

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But, I would never use individual wires inside the walls though. Ever.
Yeah I saw that bottom feed too Ty. But I figured that's 2+G and we just can't see the tiny bit of covering that's in the connector.
Often outdated installations that don't meet newer codes are considered grandfathered. You should see some of the scary stuff here.
However, usually when you change or add anything, you're required to bring the whole box or section up to the current code along with it.
 
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Sethodine

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Well, I just contacted a local electrician via HomeAdvisor to schedule the appointment. I also emailed him the photo posted above, and he said, "It's messy, but up to code". That said, I'm still going to have him do the work installing the 240v socket, just in-case there are other factors at play here that I do not understand.
 

Coss

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Well, I just contacted a local electrician via HomeAdvisor to schedule the appointment. I also emailed him the photo posted above, and he said, "It's messy, but up to code". That said, I'm still going to have him do the work installing the 240v socket, just in-case there are other factors at play here that I do not understand.
Great idea; personally, I hate dealing with household electrical, too many things can be fatal, and that doesn't bode well with me.
We've got the before pictures, be nice if you would take the after shots for us too.

Better safe then lying dead on the floor smoking from your fingertips.
 

MagicDragon

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Well, I just contacted a local electrician via HomeAdvisor to schedule the appointment. I also emailed him the photo posted above, and he said, "It's messy, but up to code". That said, I'm still going to have him do the work installing the 240v socket, just in-case there are other factors at play here that I do not understand.
I recently had an electrician install a sub-panel in my basement. When the local City inspector came for the final inspection, he made a comment "Since John A. did the work I know it was done right." He still gave it a look over but made me fell comfortable I picked a local electrician with a good reputation.
 
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