Elio Court Hearing On 3/27/2018...

[RSchneider]

I still think that Elio is "Operating" out of Arizona for all intents and purposes and thus, Arizona would be the only state that has any say about Elio sales. Production? Well, that shouldn't even be an issue yet as you pointed out. If I rent a building in Nebraska to manufacture time machines in, do I have to get a permit before I start building? I suppose I could just go back in time and get one...

Elio is listed as non-Louisiana corporation operating out of Louisiana. They have been since April, 2013. So, Elio has been operating out of Arizona and Louisiana, so they are subject to each states laws.
https://coraweb.sos.la.gov/Commerci...archDetails.aspx?CharterID=1030274_7B0E3EF06A

 

[Rob Croson]

"Last Report Filed: 5/15/2018"
I wonder if those filings are public record. I couldn't easily find a link.

 

[floydv]

To me, Elio has a clear basis for appeal. "Manufacturer" is defined in Louisiana law as "any person, resident or nonresident, who fabricates, manufactures, or assembles motor vehicles, recreational products, or new, remanufactured, reconditioned, or rebuilt motor vehicle or marine motors." It does not say "fabricates, manufactures, or assembles...or offers to fabricate, manufacture, or assemble... ." [title 32, Motor Vehicles and Traffic Regulation, section 1252(24), see http://www.lmvc.la.gov/.] Therefore, since an affirmative action (fabricate, manufacture, or assemble) is a requirement to qualify as a "manufacturer," rather than the mere offer to fabricate, manufacture, or assemble, Elio Motors clearly cannot be a "manufacturer." Even if you consider the prototypes Elio has assembled, none of those have been offered for sale; indeed, no one can purchase those at any price. Hence, even the prototypes cannot be a motor vehicle, recreational product, or marine motor requiring a manufacturing license.

 

[Coss]

This is why Elio Motors has lawyers.
It's up to them to figure out the wording in each statement, and the ins and outs of the laws.
We can sit here and argue this until the sun set is green, and it would not make a bit of difference or mean anything.
So we can guess, and maybe cover a 1/4 of the possibilities, and never come up with an answer.
At this point, it's best to leave it up to the lawyers, and the mish-mosh of legal language and just leave it to them to figure out.
We are all bystanders, and nothing we say means anything.
So I for one will leave it up to the people that are paid the handle this, and wait for a decision.
There is nothing we can do except wish them the best.

 

[Rob Croson]

To me, Elio has a clear basis for appeal. "Manufacturer" is defined in Louisiana law as "any person, resident or nonresident, who fabricates, manufactures, or assembles motor vehicles, recreational products, or new, remanufactured, reconditioned, or rebuilt motor vehicle or marine motors." It does not say "fabricates, manufactures, or assembles...or offers to fabricate, manufacture, or assemble... ." [title 32, Motor Vehicles and Traffic Regulation, section 1252(24), see http://www.lmvc.la.gov/.]

Nice find, floydv. I didn't have the patience to dig through the 800+ page Louisiana motor vehicle laws document!

 

[Ty]

To me, Elio has a clear basis for appeal. "Manufacturer" is defined in Louisiana law as "any person, resident or nonresident, who fabricates, manufactures, or assembles motor vehicles, recreational products, or new, remanufactured, reconditioned, or rebuilt motor vehicle or marine motors." It does not say "fabricates, manufactures, or assembles...or offers to fabricate, manufacture, or assemble... ." [title 32, Motor Vehicles and Traffic Regulation, section 1252(24), see http://www.lmvc.la.gov/.] Therefore, since an affirmative action (fabricate, manufacture, or assemble) is a requirement to qualify as a "manufacturer," rather than the mere offer to fabricate, manufacture, or assemble, Elio Motors clearly cannot be a "manufacturer." Even if you consider the prototypes Elio has assembled, none of those have been offered for sale; indeed, no one can purchase those at any price. Hence, even the prototypes cannot be a motor vehicle, recreational product, or marine motor requiring a manufacturing license.

... and Elio didn't assemble those either. Technomotorsports assembled the prototypes.

 

[Ty]

This is why Elio Motors has lawyers.
It's up to them to figure out the wording in each statement, and the ins and outs of the laws.
We can sit here and argue this until the sun set is green, and it would not make a bit of difference or mean anything.
So we can guess, and maybe cover a 1/4 of the possibilities, and never come up with an answer.
At this point, it's best to leave it up to the lawyers, and the mish-mosh of legal language and just leave it to them to figure out.
We are all bystanders, and nothing we say means anything.
So I for one will leave it up to the people that are paid the handle this, and wait for a decision.
There is nothing we can do except wish them the best.

Come on, Coss. That's like telling the gamblers to just wait until the game is over before making a guess/wager as to the winner. It's more fun to try to figure it out and MAYBE get that "I knew it way back when" feeling.

 

[RSchneider]

I still think that Elio wins on this just because it's literally a political driven issue and has nothing to do with the facts.

 

[Coss]

I still think that Elio wins on this just because it's literally a political driven issue and has nothing to do with the facts.

Very true, it's all politics, and in politics there is never a winner, just feed ego's to see who wins the feeding contest.
Never proves a thing.

 

[Marshall]

Right. Tesla doesn't sell cars in Michigan, but they do sell them in Ohio and Indiana. So someone who lives in Michigan can buy a car out of state in Ohio, then bring it home. The dealership has to be located out of state, and the transaction has to take place out of state. I wonder how that would work if the transaction was done over the Internet. Would they have to deliver the vehicle in an out-of-state location in which they are a valid retailer/dealer? If I am a company incorporated in Delaware, and I sell a vehicle over the Internet using a server farm located in Virginia, and the vehicle is stored in a lot in PA prior to delivery, does it matter if I sit in my house in Ohio and have the vehicle delivered to my doorway? Does that constitute selling the vehicle in Ohio, requiring a dealership license, because the customer accomplished the transaction in Ohio and the delivery point is in Ohio? There are fairly strict requirements in Ohio for selling new cars.


Yeah, I agree, the "manufacturing without a license" doesn't really make any sense. I can't imagine that the law forbids you from intending to build without a license, or from owning a non-producing factory without a license. So how, exactly, are they considered a manufacturer? I think that once this gets out of the local jurisdiction, so long as EM keeps appealing it higher, they will win. The "sales without a license" part, though, I am unsure about. Is accepting deposits for reservations considered the same as selling? The Elio web site specifically says "Click here to reserve yours today" and "Over 65,000 reservations to date". Is taking a reservation considered a selling? Sure, the actually contract may it explicit that you are only buying a T-Shirt and getting a place in line to buy one later, and that this isn't a contract to buy or sell a car, bla bla bla... But if the marketing language doesn't match the contract, that in and of itself could be a violation. This is the part that I feel is shaky.

I think this will ultimately be struck down as an attempt to tax interstate commerce which is unconstitutional. Constitutional Federal Law (not all of them are) will trump State Law.

Once they are ready to begin manufacturing, they will have to tax Elio and collect sales tax on Louisiana residents ONLY. Making reservations does NOT make one a manufacturer, though it may indicate an intention to manufacture. But I think Louisiana has over reached at this point by jumping the gun.