Elio's time has come again?

[JohnJ]

Things change.... Just because something failed in the past doesn't mean it can't succeed in the future.

Years ago I was involved in a hobby (I won't say which because I wish to remain anonymous on this forum for personal reasons) and there was no magazine devoted to it. I looked at the 5 mags that had been previously published and they all failed after a few issues. To me the reasons seemed obvious and I felt I could correct their mistakes and do one that would work. For over 25 years it was published regularly, never missing an issue, until the internet came along and it went digital.

So again, Just because something failed in the past doesn't mean it can't succeed in the future.

 

[Rickb]

Just some thoughts and opinions.

I don't think many people are buying a Polaris Slingshot as a commuter vehicle or second vehicle in a two vehicle family. It's bought mostly by people that want a fun weekend vehicle but don't want a motorcycle. It's a weekend toy. I compare it to people who buy Polaris personal watercraft that don't want a full on boat but can still go out and enjoy the lake.

A three wheeled, inexpensive, fuel efficient commuter vehicle commuter idea has been around since after WWII and Europe, and has been a pipedream in the US since the days of The Dale in the 70's. It's a niche vehicle in a niche part of the market. If you took and built all of the Elio's that were reserved along with the Aptera, Solo and FUV you might get 150,000 vehicles which is about 0.004% of the total vehicle sales in 2024 of about 38 million new and used vehicles.

Are they people that want them? Yes from the numbers of people that put down deposits or bought some of the limited numbers of the FUV and Solo that were sold, and those were really small numbers in sales. The FUV and the Solo sold less than 1200 vehicles total.

I think that the main issue is that in a two car household there are usually two children. If one spouse has the normal car and the other the 1/2 passenger three wheeler and that person is the only one that can pick up both kids from school because the other can't because of work issues it becomes a headache. Or the normal car is in the shop for repair.

The Mongrel. I wonder if Mark ran a foul of trademark or licensing laws. I understand he was using off the shelf body panels and drivetrain parts, it could be that if he was planning on building them for public sale instead of a personal one off vehicle, that using other manufactures parts without a licensing agreement for those parts.

Just some thoughts.

I give Arcimoto and ElectraMecannica credit due for bringing a fully certified production model three wheeler vehicle to market. Both suffered from “new startup vehicle manufacturer blues”. The higher than marketed MSRP needed to not lose money on every vehicle sold, resulted in many cancelled reservations. Both vehicles needed tweaks and improvements before production scale, $millions needed for tooling a manufacturing plant for scaled production numbers, and no local sales and servicing options. The early adopters had issues with vehicles and found it difficult to get the parts and service needed to keep their FUV’s and Solos up and running. Owner’s loved their vehicles. Solo is officially dead, while the FUV is still on life support.
The FUV is the most fun I’ve had driving any vehicle in terms of performance and handling. I’d buy one in a heartbeat providing there was local sales and service. There was excitement about the FUV from people I passed and met along the way. I could have sold 5 FUVs during that 2 hour test drive experience. Affordability is not possible without proven demand that generates and justifies production scaled numbers out the gate.

 

[dbacksfan81]

Things change.... Just because something failed in the past doesn't mean it can't succeed in the future.

Years ago I was involved in a hobby (I won't say which because I wish to remain anonymous on this forum for personal reasons) and there was no magazine devoted to it. I looked at the 5 mags that had been previously published and they all failed after a few issues. To me the reasons seemed obvious and I felt I could correct their mistakes and do one that would work. For over 25 years it was published regularly, never missing an issue, until the internet came along and it went digital.

So again, Just because something failed in the past doesn't mean it can't succeed in the future.

Big difference between redoing a hobbiest magazine and restarting a car company.

The last American car brand and model that was temporarily resurected was the Studebaker Avanti when a group of employees bought the tooling equipment for the Avanti and had a small breif run with the Avanti II and Avanti III.

https://theavanti.com/production.html

The DeLorean never actually went away. All of the assets were purchased after the bankruptcy which included warehouses of parts to build a few hundred complete cars and all the tooling to make more parts.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/how...on-to-bring-deloreans-back-to-the-future.html

No one really knows where the two drivable Elio prototypes, any tooling or equipment is. All of the equipment from the Shrevport GM plant was sold off, used as collateral on defaulted loans or scrapped, and any of the production equipment from the plant that does exist is now 25 years old and probably no longer supported. Since there has been no bankruptcy filing and no court proceedings about the failure, it will all stay hidden somewhere rotting away.

 

[dbacksfan81]

I give Arcimoto and ElectraMecannica credit due for bringing a fully certified production model three wheeler vehicle to market. Both suffered from “new startup vehicle manufacturer blues”. The higher than marketed MSRP needed to not lose money on every vehicle sold, resulted in many cancelled reservations. Both vehicles needed tweaks and improvements before production scale, $millions needed for tooling a manufacturing plant for scaled production numbers, and no local sales and servicing options. The early adopters had issues with vehicles and found it difficult to get the parts and service needed to keep their FUV’s and Solos up and running. Owner’s loved their vehicles. Solo is officially dead, while the FUV is still on life support.
The FUV is the most fun I’ve had driving any vehicle in terms of performance and handling. I’d buy one in a heartbeat providing there was local sales and service. There was excitement about the FUV from people I passed and met along the way. I could have sold 5 FUVs during that 2 hour test drive experience. Affordability is not possible without proven demand that generates and justifies production scaled numbers out the gate.

Agreed. The FUV and Solo made it to production and into customer hands. You make excellent points as to what happened with the FUV and the only thing I would add about the Solo is that it had a major hidden flaw in the drivetrain that seems to be a hardware issue that would cause the system to just shut down. It sounds like the price to fix the issue was more and would take too much time to fix so they bought them back and sadly that ended the Solo.

 

[RSchneider]

Agreed. The FUV and Solo made it to production and into customer hands. You make excellent points as to what happened with the FUV and the only thing I would add about the Solo is that it had a major hidden flaw in the drivetrain that seems to be a hardware issue that would cause the system to just shut down. It sounds like the price to fix the issue was more and would take too much time to fix so they bought them back and sadly that ended the Solo.

It's great they crossed the production finish line. Then left the customers hanging. At least Solo bought them back. The FUV's are slowly becoming bricked and used ones are selling pretty cheap. So, it's a lesson that early celebrating to get to the production finish line and being certified means nothing and actually costs the supporters way more money than Elio did. Imagine buying a $25K FUV only to have it selling for around $7K, 4 years later. It comes down to that many will end up with a near worthless piece of junk. Luckily, Elio went under before they delivered vehicles. Imagine that disaster.

 

[JohnJ]

Big difference between redoing a hobbiest magazine and restarting a car company.

The last American car brand and model that was temporarily resurected was the Studebaker Avanti when a group of employees bought the tooling equipment for the Avanti and had a small breif run with the Avanti II and Avanti III.

https://theavanti.com/production.html

The DeLorean never actually went away. All of the assets were purchased after the bankruptcy which included warehouses of parts to build a few hundred complete cars and all the tooling to make more parts.

https://www.cnbc.com/2016/11/09/how...on-to-bring-deloreans-back-to-the-future.html

No one really knows where the two drivable Elio prototypes, any tooling or equipment is. All of the equipment from the Shrevport GM plant was sold off, used as collateral on defaulted loans or scrapped, and any of the production equipment from the plant that does exist is now 25 years old and probably no longer supported. Since there has been no bankruptcy filing and no court proceedings about the failure, it will all stay hidden somewhere rotting away.

Haven't thought of this in years. It's 1963 and I'm a senior in high school. It was Saturday night and a couple of friends and I wanted to go somewhere... doesn't matter where, and we were offered a ride with someone we knew. He happened to be the son of the local Studebaker dealer and that night he had an Avanti. 4 of us piled in and I was in the back on the passenger side. We took off down the freeway and our driver decided to show us how fast it was, so in typical teen age boy style he stomped it. So we're going down the freeway like a bat-otta-hell and the road makes a gradual curve to the left. This would be no problem if you were driving the speed limit... which we were not. I'll never forget the sound and sight out my window as the rocker panels of the Avanti scrapped the concrete curb. Smoke and flames every where and the smell of burning fiberglass . Fortunately the car was not consumed. Our friend was never allowed an Avanti again.....

 

[RSchneider]

What confuses me is this. Solo, FUV, Elio, Avanti, DMC are all out of business. They literally should have stayed in business. FUV and Solo should have been doing great because they got to production. Yet they are gone. Same for Avanti and DMC. Yet for some reason, Vanderhall is still in business. That thing is one of the most hated vehicles because it checks zero boxes. It's just about impossible to get into. No doors, no full enclosure and plus way too expensive. Please, someone tell me why Vanderhall still exists? It should have never even made it to production to begin with, let alone still selling product, warranty and service. Makes no sense.