Gm Closing 5 Plants - 14,000 Jobs Gone.

[Ty]

I was talking about GM having paid off their debt. Elio never had an agreement with Caddo Parish to provide jobs. Elio only entered agreements with Racer Trust. Of course, a 1,500 person promise was made to the people of Caddo at some point. Elio has always said they'd be hiring that many people but that's not nearly as important to me as Elio actually producing vehicles... regardless to the number of people hired...

 

[Uncle Charlie]

They were bailed out but repaid ALL of that money. I get that it was a decent bet for the government to step in and try to help save those jobs and in the end, it paid off for the government. I mean, they got their initial investment back directly and got the taxes paid by those jobs they saved for several years. So, that was a win... of a sort.

Here's the then CEO of GM saying that the loans would never be repaid. The clip is 5 years old:

https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2943295866001/?#sp=show-clips

Also, here's a breakdown of how much of the various bailouts has been repaid. Note the the greatest loss to date is from GM:

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

 

[Rickb]

Here's the then CEO of GM saying that the loans would never be repaid. The clip is 5 years old:

https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2943295866001/?#sp=show-clips

Also, here's a breakdown of how much of the various bailouts has been repaid. Note the the greatest loss to date is from GM:

https://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list

Might want to fact check GM’s TARP Loan repayment:
https://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/

 

[Grumpy Cat]

 

[Grumpy Cat]

Might want to fact check GM’s TARP Loan repayment:
https://www.factcheck.org/2010/05/general-motors-debt/

Might want to check your sources again. I'd go into it, but that would be driving this thread more into the political arena.

 

[Maurtis]

Might want to check your sources again. I'd go into it, but that would be driving this thread more into the political arena.

I think we can get into it without pointing political fingers. We should be dealing with facts on record and looking at what was paid and not why behind the bailouts in the first place.

From what I gather there are two components to the bailout:

- a cash component loaned to GM by the government
- a stock purchase from GM by the government

The documents say the cash component was paid back. Not getting into how it was paid back, but just that it was paid back.

The stock that the government bought was later sold at a 10.5 billion dollar loss, so the bailout cost the government (and in turn, us the tax payer) money since we sold the stock at a loss?

 

[Rickb]

I think we can get into it without pointing political fingers. We should be dealing with facts on record and looking at what was paid and not why behind the bailouts in the first place.

From what I gather there are two components to the bailout:

- a cash component loaned to GM by the government
- a stock purchase from GM by the government

The documents say the cash component was paid back. Not getting into how it was paid back, but just that it was paid back.

The stock that the government bought was later sold at a 10.5 billion dollar loss, so the bailout cost the government (and in turn, us the tax payer) money since we sold the stock at a loss?

Yes, but the BIG PICTURE focus should be on the government profit turned by the overal TARP Program and the benefit to the recovery of the national and main street economy. Kind of like our personal investment portfolios......some stocks lose some gain.........hopefully more gain than loss to balance a successful investment strategy. The TARP was a bipartisan win for taxpayers. I’m not a GM fan for a variety of reasons, but glad the 5000 +- GM Dealerships and the majority of GM factories are still in business.

Investopia: ”TARP Investments earned more than $11 billion for taxpayers. TARP recovered funds totaling $441.7 billion from $426.4 billion invested. The government also claimed that TARP prevented the American Auto Industry from failing and saved more than 1 million jobs, helped stabilize banks, and restore credit availability for individuals and businesses.”

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/t/troubled-asset-relief-program-tarp.asp

 

[JEBar]

This thread is providing a good discussion. However, I've had to go through and remove political comments. That ends here. My hope is it can be maintained without political references, If not, it will be locked.

 

[vick]

Some facts that you are missing! If the government would have let GM fail and disappear you should also consider the tax revenue that would have been lost from all the employees working at GM today, the employees at the dealerships, the employees at the suppliers that would have failed also, and the list goes on and on. Why did Toyota and Ford go in front of congress and support the bailout of GM? Because if GM failed, there would not be a auto manufacturer in the US today. The suppliers were hanging by a string and some did fail but the major ones reorganized and had financial help to survive. Without GM there would not have been enough demand for the suppliers to survive and it would have resulted in Ford failing and Toyota not building another auto in the US. The government has been paid back and is still being paid from all the tax revenue paid from every employee and business that is still alive today because GM is still here today. GM is looking to the future, the same as Ford and Fiat Chrysler. The only thing different GM announced what they are actually going to do. Ford and Fiat Chrysler only announced they were going to end most of their car lines. Trucks, SUVS, and cross overs are the future if you want to survive in the auto market today. And the trend is going toward electric. GM has announced several new electric vehicles coming out in the next few years and they are hiring people in this field. The electric vehicle field is growing quickly and if you do not change earlier enough, you will not survive in the auto industry. And this fact definitely does hurt the chance we will ever drive the Elio we do desire. Who is going to invest in a product from yesterday?

 

[Grumpy Cat]

I think we can get into it without pointing political fingers. We should be dealing with facts on record and looking at what was paid and not why behind the bailouts in the first place.

From what I gather there are two components to the bailout:

- a cash component loaned to GM by the government
- a stock purchase from GM by the government

The documents say the cash component was paid back. Not getting into how it was paid back, but just that it was paid back.

The stock that the government bought was later sold at a 10.5 billion dollar loss, so the bailout cost the government (and in turn, us the tax payer) money since we sold the stock at a loss?

Just a couple of snippets, but the whole articles are worth reading:

https://www.nationalreview.com/2012/05/obama-and-gm-cook-books-john-lott/

The money the government spent adds up quickly: $50 billion in TARP bailout funds, a special exemption waiving payment of $45.4 billion in taxes on future profits, an exemption for all product liability on cars sold before the bailout, $360 million in stimulus funds, and the $7,500 tax credit for those who buy the Chevy Volt. GM’s share of other programs is harder to quantify but includes, for example, some of the $15.2 billion that went to Cash for Clunkers. Those costs are in addition to the billions taken from GM’s bondholders by the Obama administration.

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/did-general-motors-really-repay-its-taxpayer-bailout

The day before the GM story broke, Neil Barofsky, the government TARP watchdog, testified before the Senate Finance Committee. He explained that GM did not use earnings to repay its TARP debt. The April quarterly report to Congress from his office stated: “The source of funds for these quarterly [debt] payments will be other TARP funds currently held in an escrow account.”

Not directly aimed at GM, but TARP is a pretty terrible program that is not profitable:

https://www.cnbc.com/id/42234584

https://hubpages.com/politics/Obama-General-Motors-GM-Tarp-Bailout-Untold-Details

GM did not payback the TARP loans as their announcement appeared to say. They only paid back one particular loan package of $6.7 billion - not the $49.5 billion the announcement implied. Even worse was that GM also did not repay the loan with monies and profits from the newly invigorated company - they paid it with more TARP funds from another TARP escrow account. None of the repayment funds came from GM monies.