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Honda S660 (japan Only)

Discussion in 'Similar Vehicles' started by mkiker2089, Jul 28, 2018.

  1. mkiker2089

    mkiker2089 Elio Addict

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    I really don't get it. Ford can't sell cars period and for some reason Honda thinks we all want huge cars as well. You can't tell me that this wouldn't sell in the US. Rumor is that Toyota is working on a similar design but it probably won't come here either. For scale the car is low but not much smaller than a Miata.Does anyone know why small cars in the US have to be so tall? Don't say headroom because people 6.5 fit in Fiero's just fine.

    https://jalopnik.com/the-honda-s660-is-the-most-fun-you-can-have-at-25-mph-1818777702
     
  2. mkiker2089

    mkiker2089 Elio Addict

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  3. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    People in the US need to realize that we are very lucky as to how cheap it is to drive in the US as compared to other developed countries. There's no incentive to buy a small cheap car like the S660. It would be sold to a few enthusiasts and that's it. If the US did what other developed countries do, then the S660 would sell. This is because in those countries, they tax you differently depending on what you drive. This is the reason why Japan has the Kei car segment. They are taxed less as opposed to larger cars with larger engines. The same as for Europe. The EU mad a special class for sub 1000 cc, gasoline, 3 cylinder engine cars. Thus, the reason why there are so many manufacturers making them now and why they are so efficient. In places like Germany a 990cc VW UP! would cost you around $100 yearly road tax. A 1590cc TDI VW Golf TDI is $300. A 1990cc VW Golf R is around $600.

    That would be like having a Mitsu Mirage and paying $100/year for registration and paying $1500/year for a Chevy Suburban. Incentive is given for less fuel consumption, engine size and cleaner exhaust. Since a Mitsu Mirage and Suburban cost the same in yearly registration fees, then there's no incentive to get the Mirage. Yes it gets better mileage but you save $1400 year on tax alone. This is one thing that will be a problem for the Elio because there's not enough of a difference in yearly tax as opposed to a Suburban. Here in PA the yearly tax on any car is $37 and for an Elio, it's $19. An $18/year difference is not enough. It needs to be at least $1800 and then everyone would be buying an Elio.
     
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  4. mkiker2089

    mkiker2089 Elio Addict

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    I see your point. Many of us pay a tax on the value and we pay tax on gas but those are more transparent to the end user. If we had cars that were more tax exempt based on green or size issues.

    That kind of cheeses me off about the Tesla / Volt tax credit. A car like the Elio should also get the 7.5k tax credit as it's as green as a Tesla. It won't however because the very specific regulations. If the 7.5 went to micro cars as well maybe that would help us break free from oil.

    edit- in PA you don't pay tax based on the value of the car? In NC we get hit each year with an inflated "Tax Value" that has no real world comparison.
     
  5. RSchneider

    RSchneider Elio Addict

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    I know there are states that personal property tax where they tax you on value but not efficiency and emissions. So a Tesla would be taxed more than an Elio or a 2005 Chevy Suburban. In the US if we had a yearly tax that's only based on the mileage and emissions, then people would be buying smaller more efficient cars. As of now, there's no incentive so that 2005 Suburban giving 18 mpg gets taxed either the same or less than a Tesla or Elio. That's why people just keep the Suburban because it's pretty much worthless and the cost per year is not that much. Even if you still drove the Suburban for 10K per year at $3/gal averaging 18 mpg as opposed to the Elio with an average of 65 mpg, it costs you $1200 more per year to operate. If the Suburban was taxed at $1500/year and the Elio at $100, then the numbers add up because the Suburban now costs you $2600/year to operate. Plus it's easier to bleed $1200 over 12 months in gas as opposed to that slow bleed along with a $1400 yearly tax up charge that's due at one time.

    I know this will never happen but if it did, Elio would be funded and the landscape of small fuel efficient cars would be dominant at the dealers. Since it's not, then you still sell Suburbans without a problem while the Spark sits in the corner for months.
     
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  6. Maurtis

    Maurtis Elio Addict

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    I love small cars. LOVE them. My last three favorite cars were my MINI Cooper S, Hyundai Veloster, and my current NC Miata. But in my case I always had something larger available for those times when I needed more hauling capacity for people, luggage, mulch, etc. Small cars are a compromise and you have to want a small car despite those compromises. Moving to something larger like a Civic or Corolla which are pretty big these days does not cost much more, if at all, and you get a lot more day-to-day utility.

    As said already, without further incentive to buy Kei-style cars I cannot see the US market being big enough to bring them over. I freaking love Kei cars and would have a stable of them. Convertibles, vans, etc. But I am not exactly a normal US auto consumer.

    That S660 looks awesome and I would be in line for one, but with a top speed of 87 MPH on my highway commute it would be buzzing at the top of the rev range. And complete lack of trunk space means commuter only and no grocery getting or weekend trips with anyone with you. Kind of reminds me of my 2012 Honda CBR250R. Tiny, absurdly fun to ride, topped out around the same speed. One day I was riding into a strong headwind on I-35 and had to ride in the slow lane since I was not able to go over 75 MPH and was bottlenecking traffic! It made me laugh a bit :D

    Even if they did bring it over here, the market for very small cars is not large. From looking online, the sales figures for 2017:

    Sporty/Fun small cars:
    Mazda Miata: 11,294
    MINI Cooper/S: 32,329
    Toyota GT86: 6,846 (really that low? Wow)

    Utilitarian subcompact cars:
    Mitsubishi Mirage: 22,386
    Honda Fit: 49,454
    Nissan Versa/Note: 106,772

    Compact (but still pretty big) cars:
    Honda Civic: 377,286
    Toyota Corolla: 308,695

    Assuming something like the S660 or Toyota equivalent falls in the Miata/Cooper sporty and fun range they are still an order of magnitude less sales than the compact cars. Blech.

    We had a friend visiting last week that had a new Civic so I got to drive it around for a bit. Very smooth car, good handling and okay power even stock, but not a single thing soul stirring about it. Super comfortable and capable as a commuter but low on fun factor.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
  7. CrimsonEclipse

    CrimsonEclipse Elio Addict

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    "Top speed is 140 km/h, about 87 mph, and 0-60 mph times are irrelevant."

    No... it is VERY RELEVANT!!

    A car reviewer outright saying that the 0-60 time is irrelevant is a car reviewer that is bought an paid for.
     
  8. Ty

    Ty Elio Addict

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    I took it as tongue and cheek as in there's no way this car posts a 0-60 time that you could really time unless you used a calendar.
     
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  9. Johnny Acree

    Johnny Acree Elio Addict

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    In 2017 smart sold 3017 in the US. Mercans don't like small cars.
     
  10. johnsnownw

    johnsnownw Elio Addict

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    The Elio is nowhere near as green as a Tesla, or any other BEV, and that's reflected in the efficiency ratings:

    Elio: 49* City/84* Hwy (*target)
    Model 3: 131 City/120 Hwy

    I agree that hyper-efficient ICEVs should get proportionally similar tax incentives, however.
     

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