I Shall Call It "total Enviormental Impact!"

[CompTrex]

Yup.
I'm not quite old enough to have remembered when the last Rex went down.
Humans may have done pretty well without them, but they didn't vanish because of human actions.
The ones on my list? Pretty much.
I'd say that's having a pretty profound effect.

Agreed

 

[CompTrex]

Yup.
I'm not quite old enough to have remembered when the last Rex went down.
Humans may have done pretty well without them, but they didn't start to vanish because of human actions.
The ones on my list? Pretty much.
I'd say that's having a pretty profound effect.

Well... agreed to an extent. Humans had a very profound effect on the Passenger Pigeon. And I realize that things are all interconnected; like no pigeon, more bugs, more bugs... etc. Hard to calculate the actual impact. But do humans and did the extinction of the pigeons really have a very big global impact on the sustainability of the Earth?

(Elio)

 

[Elio Amazed]

Well... agreed to an extent. Humans had a very profound effect on the Passenger Pigeon. And I realize that things are all interconnected; like no pigeon, more bugs, more bugs... etc. Hard to calculate the actual impact. But do humans and did the extinction of the pigeons really have a very big global impact on the sustainability of the Earth?

(Elio)

Depends on your meaning of "sustainability of the Earth". For who exactly? At what cost to the quality of life?
I would say that the pigeons (and every other species that has had, or is having, a human-driven extinction event) certainly think so.
Keep in mind that parched and arid parts of the middle east used to produce the world's largest agricultural bounty.
In the context of the age of this perfectly designed and balanced universe, that was yesterday.
As in the Elio, "progress" is a combination of compromises. In other words, progress has it's costs.
Another of my faults is sincerely believing in the butterfly effect.

 

[CompTrex]

Depends on your meaning of "sustainability of the Earth". For who exactly? At what cost to the quality of life?
I would say that the pigeons (and every other species that has had, or is having, a human-driven extinction event) certainly think so.
Keep in mind that parched and arid parts of the middle east used to be produce the world's largest agricultural bounty.
In the context of the age of this perfectly balanced universe, that was yesterday.
As in the Elio, "progress" is a combination of compromises. In other words, progress has it's costs.
Another of my faults is sincerely believing in the butterfly effect.

Agreed.
For who exactly?
For the Earth.

 

[Elio Amazed]

As in the Elio, "progress" is a combination of compromises. In other words, progress has it's costs.

Chalk it up to a "bleeding heart" point of view if you want to, but...
What happened in the middle east almost happened in this country.
It took a mamouth effort and years to pull our midwest out of the abyss.
All it takes is for us to forget for a single moment in time.
In the human race's "progress", those compromises should be chosen with the most careful consideration we can give.
Not only for the rest of the planet's species, but for the human race as well.

 

[CompTrex]

Chaulk it up to a "bleeding heart" point of view if you want to, but...
What happened in the middle east almost happened in this country.
It took a mamouth effort and years to pull our midwest out of the abyss.
All it takes is for us to forget for a single moment in time.
In the human race's "progress", those compromises should be given much more careful consideration than any made on the Elio.
Not only for the rest of the planet's species, but for the human race as well.
So very much more.

Sorry. You lost me.
Can you rephrase?

 

[Elio Amazed]

Sorry. You lost me.
Can you rephrase?

The dustbowl of the '30's.
We (the humans) caused it and we barely got our butts out of it.

 

[CompTrex]

The dustbowl of the '30's.
We (the humans) caused it and we barely got our butts out of it.

Dust bowl.
Butterfly effect.
Passenger pigeon.
I had to look all of those up! This has been a very educational conversation!
I'm feeling pretty intellectually inadequate though. Thanks for bearing with me.

I will say, obviously, as you have stated, humans can and do effect things. And we make mistakes. Most, like the dust bowl, we also fix. That being said, even the dust bowl, as far as I know, didn't have any long term and especially any global impact on the Earth. The Global Warming believers are telling me that I am destroying the planet, and I just don't buy it. I don't think we have that much power.

 

[Elio Amazed]

Dust bowl.
Butterfly effect.
Passenger pigeon.
I had to look all of those up! This has been a very educational conversation!
I'm feeling pretty intellectually inadequate though. Thanks for bearing with me.

I will say, obviously, as you have stated, humans can and do effect things. And we make mistakes. Most, like the dust bowl, we also fix. That being said, even the dust bowl, as far as I know, didn't have any long term and especially any global impact on the Earth. The Global Warming believers are telling me that I am destroying the planet, and I just don't buy it. I don't think we have that much power.

Well said.
I can live with that.

My opinion is, individually, no, we don't have the power.
As a race, we may not have the power to destroy the planet as such.
However, we definitely have the collective power to destroy the conditions on the planet that give us a decent quality of life.
Think army ants. One? No threat. A colony not foraging? Not much of a threat. A colony foraging? Run for the river.
Humans are foragers. Always have been.

It's not just global warming (I was never much good at being "politically correct").
It's also: Depleting our aquifers...
Continuing to deforest and pollute mass tracts of land and water...
Changing the genetic makeup of our food which places the control of a smaller variety of available foods in the hands of a very few...
And so on.

Theres also the fact that in 1968 the population of the earth was around 3.5B.
The population is projected to be around 9.6B by 2050.
People steadfastly refuse to believe in the limitations of our planet.
Why are some of the most palatable species of fish in danger of being fished out?
The oceans are huge right? So huge that what I just mentioned should never happen.

I'm not out to change anyone's mind to my view, but only to have a few consider my view.

Consider this:
We are determined to burn every last bit of carbon in the ground.
When you look up at the sky, it looks and seems infinite.
In reality, the useable thin atmospheric "skin" on this planet is only a few miles thick.
I've run that distance in one stretch quite a few times in my life.

To bring this back to center, that's why I feel the Elio's "Total Environmental Impact" is indeed one of it's important characteristics.

 

[Folks]

Alright Folks.
Even though you seem to want to be just plain unnecessarily and inappropriately base and nasty in your responses...
Instead of stooping to whatever level you're on, I've provided a couple of links.
These directly pertain to the two issues you mentioned.

I knew it!!!! this is what comes from waking a sleep walker. Now he want to call me names. LOL
Pardon my zeal for it is not aimed at you per say . Its' the endless drool of the national media's completely inundating the airways with this tripe that really gets me going . So certainly as one can trap a butterfly for scientific analysis so precisely are your misstatements on this matter trappable and revealed. I gave you 2 easily verifiable statements from the Climatology Sciences. (not your proposed junk science sites) It is most discourteous for you to completely ignore them not to mention unscientific.

And then you expect me to read from a "UN" site that has a proven long history of Ani American propaganda not scientific in the slightest.
I would ask all to observe this as a test tube case of how when Libs confronted with facts start attacking with presenter and cover up with trashy Al Gore type propaganda from the "UN" no less.
This all should really be PMed, you know.