Jalopnik Claims Elio Has Only $100k In Bank, $123 Million In Debt

[Bookly]

There just seems to be a thought in here that hitting the 65K number means the ATVM loan is a done deal. It's not. Again, within that 65K number, Elio has not broken out binding vs. non-binding. Even with such info, the DOE is not beholden to grant the loan based on that number, as none has been indicated as "market acceptance".

I'm new here, but I'm lost how this is somehow offensive (even if you disagree).

 

[Sailor Dog]

Here's another bet that you should jump on. 2 months after the 65k number is reached, if EM hasn't secured the DOE loan or had a private investor put $100M towards EM, you leave the forum.

If they have, I will leave the forum until I buy one.

I am not talking about having another public offering of stock or selling equipment. I mean $100Million plus actually getting into their account.

Out with a caveat too...short sellers are using this forum to try to swim against the tide of US manufacturing coming... I'll take that bet; 65k at a 85% lock in rate, 75 plus highway MPG...VCs waiting (in my opinion) in the wings for final DOE ATVM decision. I don't make bets that I lose by the way. Won't speak about it again until proven correct...again. No more controversy from me...I'm out of this thread of interrogation. Go Elio!!!

 

[Terrence]

They "cherry picked" a lot of the content; so it's "sound bites" taken out of context; plus it was established a while back the Jalopnik is not Elio Friendly.
The article is not 100% correct.

Thank you for the clarity Mr. Coss

 

[Rob Croson]

As such, the DOE is not bound by any binding number Elio decides to present. There just seems to be a thought in here that hitting the 65K number means the ATVM loan is a done deal. It's not.

The DOE is bound by what they've agreed to with EM, but we don't know the specifics of that agreement. What we do know is that EM's statements strongly imply that there is some number that would meet the criteria and they set the 65k total reservations mark knowing that. It is reasonable to assume that EM would set it at a point that will meet any agreed upon criteria.

In a way, you're both correct. It would be foolish to not believe that there is some understanding between the DOE and EM as to what is required to demonstrate commitment and acceptance, or whatever they want to call it. EM was very clear that the new commitment drive with 7k lock in price was related to the new DOE requirements for the loan. However, they also pointedly declined to provide any details as to exactly what numbers they needed, or provide any specifics on how many lock ins they were getting. So we know that the lock in program is to satisfy the DoEs requirements to demonstrate commitment. We don't know if 65k has anything to do with that, or if it's just a financial thing. (My personal opinion is that the 65k is strictly an EM thing, and has nothing to do with the DoE.)

At the same time, we don't know any of the details. We don't know if EM and the DoE have an agreement as to how many lock ins mean they get the loan. We don't know if the 65k thing is related to the loan. We don't know if all-in numbers are related to the loan criteria. For all we know, the DoE may have told EM that if they get 65k reservations, with a minimum 50% lock in commitment, that they will get the loan. Or maybe some other percentage.

We all have our ideas and opinions. But the only people who really know, aren't talking.

 

[RSchneider]

I went in this morning looking to reserve a car and what I found was this. If I do a $100-$1000 non-refundable, it tells me (right on the Elio site)

"Make your reservation now and you'll receive the next spot available in the production line, which is approximately 21,200. Your official number will be sent in the email within 6-8 weeks."

I wonder, does the DOE count the refundable reservations? It seems that anyone could put down $100 refundable reservation yet not actually buy the car and get their money back. I could in theory, make fifty $100 refundable reservations and never have any intention to buy the cars yet the number gets closer to the 65K. Does that make sense or is there something I'm missing?

It looks like to me that non-refundable means I'm all in and going to buy the car but refundable means, I'm on the fence about it and have not committed. Sort of like when I was in high school and I gave a girl my phone number for her to call me. Most of the time I never got the call.

 

[WilliamH]

In a way, you're both correct. It would be foolish to not believe that there is some understanding between the DOE and EM as to what is required to demonstrate commitment and acceptance, or whatever they want to call it. EM was very clear that the new commitment drive with 7k lock in price was related to the new DOE requirements for the loan. However, they also pointedly declined to provide any details as to exactly what numbers they needed, or provide any specifics on how many lock ins they were getting. So we know that the lock in program is to satisfy the DoEs requirements to demonstrate commitment. We don't know if 65k has anything to do with that, or if it's just a financial thing. (My personal opinion is that the 65k is strictly an EM thing, and has nothing to do with the DoE.)

At the same time, we don't know any of the details. We don't know if EM and the DoE have an agreement as to how many lock ins mean they get the loan. We don't know if the 65k thing is related to the loan. We don't know if all-in numbers are related to the loan criteria. For all we know, the DoE may have told EM that if they get 65k reservations, with a minimum 50% lock in commitment, that they will get the loan. Or maybe some other percentage.

We all have our ideas and opinions. But the only people who really know, aren't talking.

The one thing we do know and understand when dealing with the DOE is their propensity for evolving requirements and the fate of Aptera.
We can assume that any commitment from the DOE is as if graved in Jello on a hot day.

 

[Elio Amazed]

The one thing we do know and understand when dealing with the DOE is their propensity for evolving requirements and the fate of Aptera.
We can assume that any commitment from the DOE is as if graved in Jello on a hot day.

"With a will to believe, and my songs on my sleeve
If only I'd known from the start
Such a sensitive toy, for a suburban boy
Who believed he was suffering for art...
But then something went wrong
And he watched as his songs
Met a slow death of silence, but worse
He was taken to task, by some critic who asked,
"Do you write the words or lyrics first..."

I hear 'em callin':
"Boy, you should be grateful
To get your foot inside the door.
You know there's thousands out there
Who would take your place...
This attitude of yours, my son,
Well, it lacks the due respect...
You bite the hand that feeds you--
Even if you're never fed... "

Michael Stanley – Midwest Midnight

 

[WilliamH]

With a will to believe, and my songs on my sleeve
If only I'd known from the start
Such a sensitive toy, for a suburban boy
Who believed he was suffering for art...
But then something went wrong
And he watched as his songs
Met a slow death of silence, but worse
He was taken to task, by some critic who asked,
"Do you write the words or lyrics first..."

I hear 'em callin':
"Boy, you should be grateful
To get your foot inside the door.
You know there's thousands out there
Who would take your place...
This attitude of yours, my son,
Well, it lacks the due respect...
You bite the hand that feeds you--
Even if you're never fed... "

Michael Stanley – Midwest Midnight

Say What ????
I have no idea what you are saying.

 

[Ekh]

Quoting are we? Hmmm, let's get down to the basics then:

"In order to be financially eligible for an ATVM loan, an applicant must be financially viable without the receipt of additional federal funding for the proposed project."

https://energy.gov/lpo/services/atvm-loan-program

Fail!

Not true. Elio has a book value in orders of roughly $460 million against $130 million in current liabilities and a $186 million loan. The ATVM loan is fully secured by real orders. Proving that is why Elio went on the "letter of commitment" program. No need for any further government loans for operating capital; there will be plenty of money available as soon as the doors are open.

 

[Ekh]

OK guys, maybe I can resolve this right now. DOE's concern is that Elio can't pay back the loan. They don't believe demand for the car is real, despite the reservations. What Elio wants is a for DOE to conduct a due diligence process, which involves an outside firm looking at the whole picture, including the level of supplier commitment (which is enormous), orders, costs, debts, technical feasibility -- the whole nine yards. EM is convinced that such a due diligence would come out fine for them.

If DOE is ducking this, which is a procedure they've used before, it's because they don't WANT to. And that's a political matter, not a technical or legal one.