No Guarantees...

[cantwait]

in thinking back, I don't recall anyone forcing/coercing/begging me to put money down as a reservation (the same will be true when Crowd Funding comes along) .... I don't recall anyone forcing/coercing/begging me go "All In" instead of "Want In" .... I do recall EM stating goals, I don't recall anything set in stone .... did I read the statement giving the terms I was agreeing to prior to putting money down, yep .... am I happy that there have been delays, certainly not ..... am I disappointed that there have been delays, absolutely .... am I growing any younger, nope will turn 69 next month .... do I understand how others can suffer some anxiety, certainly .... do I understand the prevalent I want it now mentality, yep .... would I love to have ours sitting out in the driveway right now, you bet .... do I have any sympathy whatsoever for those who have and probably will continue to come unglued/angry/depressed/stressed out/highly frustrated when the process hasn't gone smoothly, nope .... if the production date is delayed again, will I be happy, nope .... will that sour me on the project, nope .... to place a reservation a person should have been an adult and known what they were getting into .... if they claim they didn't, as an adult they should have .... show me documentation where a person was given concrete promises that haven't been kept and that would change everything .... until then, I can't muster much sympathy
stepping down from soapbox ..

I think you make a good point here. The complainers seem to forget the difference between a target and a promise. While Elio has made some promises - the loans, the 1500 employees, etc, those promises have been made to others, not to us. Their promises to us will start when we sign a contract to order a production Elio.

Until then, everything is a target, including, but not limited to:
Production date.
$6800 MSRP
5-star safety rating or even engineered for safety
American content
Off the shelf content
American made
0-60 in 9.6 and 100 mph
ABS and traction control
Fuel economy - rated and actual
Standard features like air-conditioning and stereo
Optional features and pricing, including the transmission choices
Color availability and price
Styling, both interior and exterior
Fuel cap location
Whether or not motorcycle licenses or helmets will be required
Etcetera ad infinitum

Clearly, they have missed a few targets like the production date, and if they miss too many of the must-haves, they will lose sales, but none of these things were promised in the reservation agreement. The money was sent in because we liked the idea, not because we were certain that they would be able to delivery on any or all of the targets.

Anybody who would become "unglued/angry/depressed/stressed out/highly frustrated" just because the first Elio came out in 2025, and was a motorized electric wheelchair costing $36,000, with a top speed of 5 mph and a 13 mile range should have read the reservation agreement better.

Obviously, none of us think that is what is going to happen, but that is part of the risk that we signed up for.

Keep calm, and autocycle on.

 

[JEBar]

In all fairness to some of the disappointed reservationists, I recall Paul Elio stating we have the money with or without the ATVM Loan approval during the 2014 SEMA interview and 3 days later the delay announcement. The discussion on this site focused on their 2015 Christmas Elio deliveries. Frankly, when the CEO says I have the money to me that means a 2015 production goal is reachable unless the P5 and E Builds and testing warranted change to delay those production goals (not funding issues). I give those disappointed folks some benefit of the doubt. With that said nobody forced them to reserve and/or invest. They all read the agreement before sending in a non-refunable deposit and shouldn't be disgruntled unless it turns to vaporware.

I believe I noted that I share the disappointment of the production delays and do so without taking the cause into consideration .... the fact that we were told one day funding was there and a few days later told it wasn't is most certainly a disappointment but it doesn't change the fact the written stipulations we accepted haven't changed .... they do serve as fodder from which to create smoke screens for folks looking for a rationale to cover the fact that they want it now and that ain't gonna happen .... as to turning into vaporware, when we signed we were specifically advised that there was no guarantee an Elio would ever be produced

Also, EM signing a contract DOCUMENT, with the Caddo Parrish Commission, guaranteeing 1500 jobs and a production start date seems like it was a set in stone target date with penalties if those contract 'promises' were not met. I can see where some reservationisits and the Caddo County Commissioners felt this was a done deal.

I tend to believe that the county officials did what they believe was/is in the best interest of their people .... so far as I know, they have reviewed the reasons for delays to date and have chosen to offer extensions .... here again, wanting the jobs now is understandable

My personal view on production - meh - what will be will be, but can't ignore the facts regarding the many delays and why some people feel the way they do. I can muster some sympathy for those that were desparate for the Elio to meet their basic transportation needs sooner than later.

just because I may really, truly need (not just want) an Elio doesn't change the fact that when I made my reservation I wasn't promised a delivery date .... nor that when I subsequently create what I perceive as promises made are in my head and not in reality .... dealing with disappointment is tough for all of us

 

[RUCRAYZE]

"dealing with disappointment is tough for all of us"
agreed- "stretching " the truth is another issue.
EM has learned from the funding disaster, and the engine "unvailing " to play it close - great idea
Paul telling folks his " crystal ball is broken", never cut it for me.
All the other "stuff" is understandable - when delays/modifications are presented in a professional/ upfront manner, I'm good!!

 

[Rickb]

I believe I noted that I share the disappointment of the production delays and do so without taking the cause into consideration .... the fact that we were told one day funding was there and a few days later told it wasn't is most certainly a disappointment but it doesn't change the fact the written stipulations we accepted haven't changed .... they do serve as fodder from which to create smoke screens for folks looking for a rationale to cover the fact that they want it now and that ain't gonna happen .... as to turning into vaporware, when we signed we were specifically advised that there was no guarantee an Elio would ever be produced




I tend to believe that the county officials did what they believe was/is in the best interest of their people .... so far as I know, they have reviewed the reasons for delays to date and have chosen to offer extensions .... here again, wanting the jobs now is understandable




just because I may really, truly need (not just want) an Elio doesn't change the fact that when I made my reservation I wasn't promised a delivery date .... nor that when I subsequently create what I perceive as promises made are in my head and not in reality .... dealing with disappointment is tough for all of us

All which is why I can muster some understanding for those frustrated that needed/needs the affordable Elio as their primary vehicle.

 

[cantwait]

"dealing with disappointment is tough for all of us"
agreed- "stretching " the truth is another issue.
EM has learned from the funding disaster, and the engine "unveiling " to play it close - great idea
Paul telling folks his " crystal ball is broken", never cut it for me.
All the other "stuff" is understandable - when delays/modifications are presented in a professional/ upfront manner, I'm good!!

You win the internet today.

I think the same comments are true regarding the Reg A+ funding about to take place. Elio has clearly stated that this is a high-risk investment, that the ongoing viability of the company as a going concern is questionable, that production dates and future financing are targets that may not be met, and that the $12 share of stock will be diluted (lose value) down to below zero as soon as it is issued.

This investment is for the person who firmly believes in the idea, the man, and the company, and is willing to risk it all on a single roll of the dice. It is not an investment for the timid or the complainer.

 

[RUCRAYZE]

You win the internet today.

Is there help for someone like me who spends too much time on this board???
Good grief, I pop up here before my emails, weather and news. Great bunch of folks, (who have now dwindled to just a few these days.)
Come the spring gonna put a catback on my Beemer in the hope I'll be distracted enough waiting for my E. Less opportunities here to use my sunroof, now living in Seattle

 

[JEBar]

I think the same comments are true regarding the Reg A+ funding about to take place. Elio has clearly stated that this is a high-risk investment, that the ongoing viability of the company as a going concern is questionable, that production dates and future financing are targets that may not be met, and that the $12 share of stock will be diluted (lose value) down to below zero as soon as it is issued.

This investment is for the person who firmly believes in the idea, the man, and the company, and is willing to risk it all on a single roll of the dice. It is not an investment for the timid or the complainer.

agree and do hope that proves to be the case .... history says that if/when there is a bump in the road, we will hear from folks who aren't happy because they haven't gotten their anticipated profit and or seen their anticipated progress toward production

 

[Rickb]

Is there help for someone like me who spends too much time on this board???
Good grief, I pop up here before my emails, weather and news. Great bunch of folks, (who have now dwindled to just a few these days.)
Come the spring gonna put a catback on my Beemer in the hope I'll be distracted enough waiting for my E. Less opportunities here to use my sunroof, now living in Seattle

No, There is no help for either one of us.

Rx: Take delivery of one Elio.

 

[Coss]

Less opportunities here to use my sunroof, now living in Seattle

Why? I use mine all the time.
Remember, we tell people that it rains all the time; when those that live here know better.

 

[ozarkbugg]

I feel for you guys , some have been on board since 08. I've been fortunate to have only been in since summer of 14.
Of all the risky start ups I invested in thru the years, this company has the best chance of succeeding, in my opinion.
Yes, I picked a lot of duds thru the years.