Reservations: 65341 As Of 6/20/2017

[pistonboy]

We know some of that. The first 23 (of which the number could obviously be changed - it isn't like RedDot needs to keep their model when they are done with it) are being built by hand in Michigan. We know they've made steel body panels already and are "soft tooled" in that aspect.

How long does it typically take to produce hard tooling?
We can get hard tooling completed within 16 weeks after receipt of order.

This is from http://www.advantagefabricatedmetals.com/metalstampingfaqs.html#q10

Even if the panels are stamped, it isn't necessary that Elio actually do the stamping. They could buy the body panels already stamped out. I know GM bought the Isuzu Hombre hoods from somewhere - Brazil, I believe. It's possible to outsource the stamping but not optimal. It's also possible they could outsource the engine if they needed. Elio shouldn't have to do any "stamping simulations". They've already had body panels stamped using the soft tooling so simulating something that was already done would be kind of silly.

We ALSO know they will build the 100 (if that order is still valid) at Shreveport.

You said "We ALSO know they will build the 100 (if that order is still valid) at Shreveport."

I have always questioned the claim of making 100 for fleet customers. EM came up with that when they could not meet production deadline for reservationist. It created the appearance they would be making vehicles by the production deadline, but explained why no reservationists will be receiving a vehicle.

 

[Made in USA]

Some reservation observations:

Since middle of September I have been keeping tabs on the reservations per month.
Here they are:

Sept 940
Oct 1560
Nov 1416
Dec 846
Jan 880
Feb 400
Mar 726

(7th of March reached 65,000)

 

[Ty]

You said "We ALSO know they will build the 100 (if that order is still valid) at Shreveport."

I have always questioned the claim of making 100 for fleet customers. EM came up with that when they could not meet production deadline for reservationist. It created the appearance they would be making vehicles by the production deadline, but explained why no reservationists will be receiving a vehicle.

They had originally said that they'd be built at Shreveport in a process-evaluation and that the purpose for Elio of building those 100 was to gather information so that when they went into full-rate production, they would be able to provide a better overall vehicle. I have a different view of their 100. Let me expand for a little bit.

When working as an Industrial Engineer, I would find a process to improve and take steps to improve it. Usually, this has to be done when the line is shut down. By usually, I mean always. Anyway, I'd make the biggest changes on Friday afternoon which would give them the weekend to get everything done whether it was painting lines on a warehouse floor or moving equipment around in a work station. Anyway, the auto industry has bigger equipment and can take longer to make changes. It took me months to evaluate and change the cross-body harness station at GM, for instance. Elio will probably evaluate their processes during that first 100 and will then spend some undefined amount of time correcting and tweaking the process. One thing they'll have to do is stopwatch time study each work station. This can be done watching the station just a few times so it's well within the realm of possibilities to get it done with a limited run of vehicles. What they'll do with THAT information is decide how to divide up the tasks. For instance, if the guy who attaches the rear swing arm can do that easily within his (approximately 54 seconds) allotted time, Elio may be able to add something like "attach rear wheel" or something like that. They'll do this to optimize the number of vehicles they can produce with the minimal number of people. If you can reorder things and save ONE position, you've saved money. In a real sense, every single worker on the line makes $XX per hour. They'll build up to 66 vehicles per hour (One per 54 seconds). So, each person you save from production will cut $XX/66 from each Elio. For the heck of it, lets say the worker costs $20 per hour (it'd be much more when you figure in benefits and such). $20 per hour divided by 66 cars per hour is approximately $0.30 per car in savings. $0.30 X 250,000 is $75,000 per year Elio would save by simply carefully evaluating those first 100 builds and saving one person worth of salary. This $75,000 is more than the $40,000 of direct salary savings that some people would think they are saving.

Sorry I wrote so long there. I know people's eyes glass over when they see a lot of text in the post but I wanted to say that. So, there.

 

[Coss]

Very well stated Ty; it took a lot of thought to explain that in a way we can understand it.
Now we should be hearing from Shcniedly soon, countering it since he is an engineering consultant.

 

[Travelbuzz1]

They had originally said that they'd be built at Shreveport in a process-evaluation and that the purpose for Elio of building those 100 was to gather information so that when they went into full-rate production, they would be able to provide a better overall vehicle. I have a different view of their 100. Let me expand for a little bit.

When working as an Industrial Engineer, I would find a process to improve and take steps to improve it. Usually, this has to be done when the line is shut down. By usually, I mean always. Anyway, I'd make the biggest changes on Friday afternoon which would give them the weekend to get everything done whether it was painting lines on a warehouse floor or moving equipment around in a work station. Anyway, the auto industry has bigger equipment and can take longer to make changes. It took me months to evaluate and change the cross-body harness station at GM, for instance. Elio will probably evaluate their processes during that first 100 and will then spend some undefined amount of time correcting and tweaking the process. One thing they'll have to do is stopwatch time study each work station. This can be done watching the station just a few times so it's well within the realm of possibilities to get it done with a limited run of vehicles. What they'll do with THAT information is decide how to divide up the tasks. For instance, if the guy who attaches the rear swing arm can do that easily within his (approximately 54 seconds) allotted time, Elio may be able to add something like "attach rear wheel" or something like that. They'll do this to optimize the number of vehicles they can produce with the minimal number of people. If you can reorder things and save ONE position, you've saved money. In a real sense, every single worker on the line makes $XX per hour. They'll build up to 66 vehicles per hour (One per 54 seconds). So, each person you save from production will cut $XX/66 from each Elio. For the heck of it, lets say the worker costs $20 per hour (it'd be much more when you figure in benefits and such). $20 per hour divided by 66 cars per hour is approximately $0.30 per car in savings. $0.30 X 250,000 is $75,000 per year Elio would save by simply carefully evaluating those first 100 builds and saving one person worth of salary. This $75,000 is more than the $40,000 of direct salary savings that some people would think they are saving.

Sorry I wrote so long there. I know people's eyes glass over when they see a lot of text in the post but I wanted to say that. So, there.

Many years ago I was training a person in the HVAC-R industry and he was attending collage to become an
Efficiency engineer, by observing whatever process to make it more stream lined and cost effective. I am sure Elio Motors and the engineer who ran the GM plant that Elio retained. Are or have been working with one before purchasing any equipment by placing this entire project on computer first. Along with those who would be manufacturers of the plant equipment to build these vehicles.

 

[booboo]

I found in every production job I had, that it was not so much what was engineered into the system, as how the employees worked it out.
1 good personnel manager is worth 3 engineers, 5 days a week, IMO.
A happy, valued, and noticed person, is a productive employee.

 

[Travelbuzz1]

I found in every production job I had, that is was not so much what was engineered into the system, as how the employees worked it out.
A good personel manager is worth 3 engineers, 5 days a week, IMO. A happy, valued, and noticed person, is a productive employee.

You have to start with some type of plan first with millions of dollars worth of equipment, and then incorporate the field experience (actual hands on) into it with all of the trial and error that occurs afterwards. This is what the plant manager watches to keep his assembly line running smoothly, which the plant engineer with his years of experience that was employed by GM, who now works with Elio brings to the plant operation.

 

[pistonboy]

They had originally said that they'd be built at Shreveport in a process-evaluation and that the purpose for Elio of building those 100 was to gather information so that when they went into full-rate production, they would be able to provide a better overall vehicle. I have a different view of their 100. Let me expand for a little bit.

When working as an Industrial Engineer, I would find a process to improve and take steps to improve it. Usually, this has to be done when the line is shut down. By usually, I mean always. Anyway, I'd make the biggest changes on Friday afternoon which would give them the weekend to get everything done whether it was painting lines on a warehouse floor or moving equipment around in a work station. Anyway, the auto industry has bigger equipment and can take longer to make changes. It took me months to evaluate and change the cross-body harness station at GM, for instance. Elio will probably evaluate their processes during that first 100 and will then spend some undefined amount of time correcting and tweaking the process. One thing they'll have to do is stopwatch time study each work station. This can be done watching the station just a few times so it's well within the realm of possibilities to get it done with a limited run of vehicles. What they'll do with THAT information is decide how to divide up the tasks. For instance, if the guy who attaches the rear swing arm can do that easily within his (approximately 54 seconds) allotted time, Elio may be able to add something like "attach rear wheel" or something like that. They'll do this to optimize the number of vehicles they can produce with the minimal number of people. If you can reorder things and save ONE position, you've saved money. In a real sense, every single worker on the line makes $XX per hour. They'll build up to 66 vehicles per hour (One per 54 seconds). So, each person you save from production will cut $XX/66 from each Elio. For the heck of it, lets say the worker costs $20 per hour (it'd be much more when you figure in benefits and such). $20 per hour divided by 66 cars per hour is approximately $0.30 per car in savings. $0.30 X 250,000 is $75,000 per year Elio would save by simply carefully evaluating those first 100 builds and saving one person worth of salary. This $75,000 is more than the $40,000 of direct salary savings that some people would think they are saving.

Sorry I wrote so long there. I know people's eyes glass over when they see a lot of text in the post but I wanted to say that. So, there.

I agree with you completely. The process you talked about is part of setting up the plant and is absolutely needed, though there are a few things talked about (not you) I have a different view of.

First.
I doubt they need 100 vehicles.

Second.
I doubt any vehicles will go to fleet owners for beta testing and I doubt it will be 100. As mentioned before, this would open up legal issues. Perhaps the fleet company signed a legal agreement with EM, but the employee driving the vehicle did not. I am sure a lawyer could convince a jury it was a vehicle that was not complete including its safety verification. I believe the beta test vehicles will go to select individuals who are hand picked by EM. It will be very specific what can be done with the vehicles and who can drive them. The legal agreement the tester signs will probably resemble the SEC filing. It will sound like the biggest hazard in the world to protest EM legally.

 

[pistonboy]

Very well stated Ty; it took a lot of thought to explain that in a way we can understand it.
Now we should be hearing from Shcniedly soon, countering it since he is an engineering consultant.

"Shcniedly" ???

As in "Whip Lash" ???

 

[Coss]

"Shcniedly" ???

As in "Whip Lash" ???

Hadn't thought of it that way, but I like that too, if the Whip Lash fits, wear it.