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So, What If...a Worst Case Scenario...

Johnapool

Elio Addict
So, what if, down the line, the Elio never makes it into production?
Now, don't get me wrong- I will never lose the Elio fever, and actually feel like the company will probably succeed.
But, in a couple of years, I am going to buy and refurbish/restore a Honda Insight, 2005-2006, if there is not an Elio parked out front.
Two-seater, 1.0 engine, 60 to 70 mpg highway, great reliability.
Here is some info from Wikipedia:

Honda increased the vehicle's fuel efficiency using aluminum and plastic extensively to reduce the vehicle's weight. The basic structure is a new, lightweight aluminum monocoque, reinforced in key areas with aluminum extrusions joined at cast aluminum lugs.[17] Stamped aluminum panels are welded on to this structure to form an extremely light and rigid platform for the drivetrain and suspension. The Inisght has a body weight less than half that of the contemporary Civic 3-door, with increased torsional rigidity by 38% and bending rigidity by 13%.[15] Honda built the Insight with aluminum front brake calipers and rear brake drums, and with a largely aluminum suspension, in addition to standard aluminum wheels; reducing the ratio of un-sprung to sprung weight as well as the total weight. The fuel tank is plastic; the engine mounts were aluminum; and the exhaust is a small, thin wall pipe.[16] Its compact spare is also aluminum. The Insight weighed 1,847 lb (838 kg) in manual transmission form or 1,964 lb (891 kg) with CVT and air conditioning.

Insight has a coefficient of drag of 0.25e. The absence of a rear seat allows the body to taper just behind the driver and the rear track is approximately 7 inches narrower than the front track.

The CVT-equipped Insight is classified as a super-low emissions vehicle.[18] The Insight features low emissions: the California Air Resources Board gave the 5-speed model aULEV rating, and the CVT model earned a SULEV rating – the 5-speed model's lean-burn ability traded increased efficiency for slightly higher NOx emissions.

So, what are some other alternative vehicles with super fuel economy?
 

RUCRAYZE

Elio Addict
great plan. It's a great car, great company, and currently can be secured at a very reasonable price. I only see the value rising as time goes on. It is the bench mark for everything that followed. Good luck with it
 

Coss

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
Before you price out a used Insight you might want to price out the cost of a new battery pack and the related electronics.
On all of these hybrid cars no one ever mentions the replacement battery pack price; that's because they aren't cheap.
A refurbished Prius battery pack is over $3K; being that the Insight (the older ones, they are out again) was one of the early hybrids, and a limited production car they are going to be more than the $3K.
And being an early hybrid, you'll probably have to replace some of the controllers also.

Just keep that in mind when doing a $ saving calculation.
 

Johnapool

Elio Addict
There are lots of them around with new or refurbished batteries along with chargers already in place. But, $3000-5000 plus a couple of thousand for a battery is still not a lot. They are an interesting little car. (to me!)
I searched all over the US on Craigslist, and surprisingly, found quite a few for sale. Seems that lots of owners took good care of their little hybrids.
There is really nothing out there that even comes close to the Elio for fuel economy in the price range, new or used.
 

Coss

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
There are lots of them around with new or refurbished batteries along with chargers already in place. But, $3000-5000 plus a couple of thousand for a battery is still not a lot. They are an interesting little car. (to me!)
I searched all over the US on Craigslist, and surprisingly, found quite a few for sale. Seems that lots of owners took good care of their little hybrids.
There is really nothing out there that even comes close to the Elio for fuel economy in the price range, new or used.

".....and surprisingly, found quite a few for sale" this would be a huge red flag to me; if they're so great why don't people want to keep them?
The other way to look at it; "......quite a few for sale" no one is buying them.

Don't get me wrong, I've had so many vehicles that I saw as great but everyone else thought they were just weird.
One time I had not 1 but 2 Suzuki RE5's; to me they were great bikes, but they had some inherent problems. Just little things like if you leaned it too far over in a turn at speed, it would try to put its self fully horizontal; if fast enough and leaned enough, it would try to pick the wheels up off the ground.
For a 500 it had GOBS of power, but really crappy fuel mileage. It had a governor on it because if it didn't, well it would continue to make power well past the red line and stop when something broke (usually the transmission). No vibrations at all; you could stand a nickel on edge on the tank and rev it up and the coin would not move. They also had a number of electrical problems; the igniter box would quit with no warning, and the motor would either quit running, or would run fine, you turn it off, and it wouldn't start again.
Oh yeah, the Suzuki RE5 is a rotary engine bike; one of the few Wankel engine bikes ever mass produced.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_RE5

So where you said "....They are an interesting little car. (to me!)...." everyone's taste in something makes sense to them, and it doesn't matter what other people think about it; cars and bike are very personal items and always get what is right for you.
 

Ty

Elio Addict
Before you price out a used Insight you might want to price out the cost of a new battery pack and the related electronics.
On all of these hybrid cars no one ever mentions the replacement battery pack price; that's because they aren't cheap.
A refurbished Prius battery pack is over $3K; being that the Insight (the older ones, they are out again) was one of the early hybrids, and a limited production car they are going to be more than the $3K.
And being an early hybrid, you'll probably have to replace some of the controllers also.

Just keep that in mind when doing a $ saving calculation.

To quote Toyota for their battery packs:

"And you also should know that the battery packs are available from any Toyota dealer. The MSRP for a battery pack for a first-generation Prius is $2,299, while the MSRP for the battery pack for the second-generation cars, those from the 2004-2008 model-years, is $2,588."

http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=2727

Don't mind going refurbished (and warranted?) $950 from these guys: http://www.priusrebuilders.com/


I wasn't intending to poke. You are absolutely right that people sometimes don't consider replacement costs... Also, for instance, my Diesel truck gets about 17MPG on the highway which isn't too bad compared to my wife's car which gets about 22 on the same trip... Until you add in the fact that my oil changes are easily in the triple digits and I also have to buy Urea (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) which runs about $40 every 3,000 or so miles. Suddenly, the comparison isn't so close.
 

W. WIllie

Elio Addict
The INSIGHT (G1) not the (G2) is a great car. I have owned mine sine 2001. It takes a special person to own one, like any vehicle they all have their little problems.
Battery problems will show up, The InsightCentral.Net site is the best place for information.
I'll even keep mine when I eventually get the ELIO.
354K miles and have averaged 58.0 mpg overall, and i drive in "Sport" mode most of the time.
(Don't knock it till you try it.)
At a steady 80mph, I can still get 52mpg. average.(No drafting)

Willie
 

JEBar

Administrator
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
So, what if, down the line, the Elio never makes it into production?
Now, don't get me wrong- I will never lose the Elio fever, and actually feel like the company will probably succeed.

for us an Elio is an "AND" vehicle .... I also believe that, somewhere down the line, they will get into production but if they don't we will keep our current vehicles and life will go on ....
 

Coss

Moderator
Staff member
Moderator
for us an Elio is an "AND" vehicle .... I also believe that, somewhere down the line, they will get into production but if they don't we will keep our current vehicles and life will go on ....

Hear Hear!!

I will be very disappointed (ok, extremely disappointed) but it's not the end of the world.
But I do believe we will see it in production next year.
 

Johnapool

Elio Addict
The INSIGHT (G1) not the (G2) is a great car. I have owned mine sine 2001. It takes a special person to own one, like any vehicle they all have their little problems.
Battery problems will show up, The InsightCentral.Net site is the best place for information.
I'll even keep mine when I eventually get the ELIO.
354K miles and have averaged 58.0 mpg overall, and i drive in "Sport" mode most of the time.
(Don't knock it till you try it.)
At a steady 80mph, I can still get 52mpg. average.(No drafting)

Willie
Thanks for the input. Have you had any major engine malfunctions?
 
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