The Aftermath

[floydv]

I don't think the Commission has authority to collect any penalties it assesses. The commission would have to sue EM to collect via a court order.

 

[Elio Amazed]

I don't know whether "sue" would be the appropriate term.
I think it would be more like simply filing to put a lien on EM's assets to enforce an existing decision.
That would be almost automatic whereas to "sue" would indicate that there is a decision yet to be made.

Of course it's not going to be actual commission members that come knocking at EM's door to foreclose...
As it is with any government agency collecting an outstanding debt or fine (think IRS).

 

[floydv]

I don't know whether "sue" would be the appropriate term.
I think it would be more like simply filing to put a lien on EM's assets to enforce an existing decision.
That would be almost automatic whereas to "sue" would indicate that there is a decision yet to be made.

Of course it's not going to be actual commission members that come knocking at EM's door to foreclose...
As it is with any government body collecting an outstanding debt or fine (think IRS).

"The statutes granting power to the Commission are silent as to how the civil penalties assessed by the Commission in a decision or order are to be collected. Therefore, we find in order to collect the penalties assessed against appellant, the  Commission must file suit using ordinary proceedings."
Sales 360 v. Louisiana Motor Vehicle Commission, http://caselaw.findlaw.com/la-court-of-appeal/1408637.html

 

[Elio Amazed]

Yeah, OK, Good job on the research. I've been schooled.
Now let's see how hard it is for the commission to win that "suit".

 

[floydv]

Yeah, OK, Good job on the research. I've been schooled.
Now let's see how hard it is for the commission to win that "suit".

Oh it'll probably be routine. But I say make them work for it if they want it so bad.

 

[Kuda]

Oh it'll probably be routine. But I say make them work for it if they want it so bad.

Obviously Elio Motors will have to
pay to defend such litigation but
the money drain, though substantial,
will not be as immediate....

 

[3wheelin]

The Goods: VS The bad:
$7,400 price Untested and nothing has been sold for that price
84 mpg Again, untested w/ more prototypes to build and test
Made in USA If it ever gets "made" in the USA
Uncompromised safety No reports on any crash tests to verify safety
No money
Penalties, lawsuits, litigations
The scale is tipping on the bad side. I would assume Paul Elio is still making all the decisions and trying everything in his power to stay afloat but can't do much without money on the table. But trying to convince investors on a concept like the ELIO who never arrived at a workable first unit that can at least verify all the claims or at the very least the 84 mpg/600+ miles/tankful (obviously can't destroy the only one unit to test safety features) is a hard sell. But what's done is done; it's frustrating for all of us waiting trying to still believe it can happen- it's even more frustrating for PE and his team how it's gotten to this point of no return.

 

[floydv]

The Louisiana Motor Vehicle Commission's (LMVC) case against Elio Motors has more holes than a wheel of Swiss cheese, and I'm not even sure how they have authority to license motorcycle manufacturers and dealers:
(1) Elio was fined $272,500 for not having a manufacturer's license and another $272,500 for not having an automobile dealer's licenses, said Motor Vehicle Commission member Keith Hightower of Shreveport. [Emphasis added, see https://www.ktbs.com/news/la-motor-...cle_f71e6a5c-659d-11e7-b0e1-c393b99d01e6.html.]
(2) Louisiana laws pertaining to licensing of motor vehicle manufacturing and sales licensing are contained in Title 32, sections 1251-1261
(3) Louisiana law defines "manufacturer" as "any person, resident or nonresident, who fabricates, manufactures, or assembles motor vehicles, recreational products, or new, remanufactured, reconditioned, or rebuilt motor vehicle or marine motors." [Emphasis added, see tit. 32, sec. 1252(24).]
(4) For manufacturer licensing purposes, "motor vehicle" is defined as "any motor driven car, van, or truck required to be registered which is used, or is designed to be used, for the transporting of passengers or goods for public, private, commercial, or for hire purposes." [Emphasis added, see tit. 32, sec. 1252(34).]
(5) "Motorcycle" is defined as "a motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground but excluding a tractor and electric-powered scooters not required to be registered." [See tit. 32, sec. 1252(30).] Since a car cannot be a motorcycle at the same time, there's an inherent conflict between sec. 1252(34) and 1252(30).
(6) Clearly, the Elio is not a "car, van, or truck." In fact, the Louisiana Legislature (courtesy of Elio's efforts), recognizes the Elio as an "autocycle." [See tit. 32, sec. 1(1.1)(a) and sec. 401(2)(a), "Autocycle" means a three-wheeled motorcycle on which the driver and all passengers ride in either a completely enclosed seating area or in a side-by-side seating area that is equipped with a rollbar or roll cage, safety belts for all occupants, and is designed to be controlled with a steering wheel and pedals."]
(7) The Elio does not meet the definition of "recreational product" either since that category is intended to cover RVs (see tit. 32, sec. 1252(47)).
(8) Thus, it's not at all clear that the LMVC has authority to require licenses for manufacturers and dealers of motorcycles or autocycles.
(9) Similarly, since the Elio is not an "automobile" (see notes on definition of "motorcycle" and "autocycle" above), Elio Motors cannot, by definition, be a "an automobile dealer."
(10) Further, since Elio Motors hasn't manufactured anything for sale to the general public, it cannot by definition be a "manufacturer" of anything, automobile or otherwise.

 

[Coss]

The Louisiana Motor Vehicle Commission's (LMVC) case against Elio Motors has more holes than a wheel of Swiss cheese, and I'm not even sure how they have authority to license motorcycle manufacturers and dealers:
(1) Elio was fined $272,500 for not having a manufacturer's license and another $272,500 for not having an automobile dealer's licenses, said Motor Vehicle Commission member Keith Hightower of Shreveport. [Emphasis added, see https://www.ktbs.com/news/la-motor-...cle_f71e6a5c-659d-11e7-b0e1-c393b99d01e6.html.]
(2) Louisiana laws pertaining to licensing of motor vehicle manufacturing and sales licensing are contained in Title 32, sections 1251-1260
(3) Louisiana law defines "manufacturer" as "any person, resident or nonresident, who fabricates, manufactures, or assembles motor vehicles, recreational products, or new, remanufactured, reconditioned, or rebuilt motor vehicle or marine motors." [Emphasis added, see tit. 32, sec. 1252(24).]
(4) For manufacturer licensing purposes, "motor vehicle" is defined as "any motor driven car, van, or truck required to be registered which is used, or is designed to be used, for the transporting of passengers or goods for public, private, commercial, or for hire purposes." [Emphasis added, see tit. 32, sec. 1252(34).]
(5) "Motorcycle" is defined as "a motor vehicle having a seat or saddle for the use of the rider and designed to travel on not more than three wheels in contact with the ground but excluding a tractor and electric-powered scooters not required to be registered." [See tit. 32, sec. 1252(30).] Since a car cannot be a motorcycle at the same time, there's an inherent conflict between sec. 1252(34) and 1252(30).
(6) Clearly, the Elio is not a "car, van, or truck." In fact, the Louisiana Legislature (courtesy of Elio's efforts), recognizes the Elio as an "autocycle." [See tit. 32, sec. 1(1.1)(a) and sec. 401(2)(a), "Autocycle" means a three-wheeled motorcycle on which the driver and all passengers ride in either a completely enclosed seating area or in a side-by-side seating area that is equipped with a rollbar or roll cage, safety belts for all occupants, and is designed to be controlled with a steering wheel and pedals."]
(7) The Elio does not meet the definition of "recreational product" either since that category is intended to cover RVs (see tit. 32, sec. 1252(47)).
(8) Thus, it's not at all clear that the LMVC has authority to require licenses for manufacturers and dealers of motorcycles.
(9) Similarly, since the Elio is not an "automobile" (see notes on definition of "motorcycle" and "autocycle" above), Elio Motors cannot, by definition, be a "an automobile dealer."
(10) Further, since Elio Motors hasn't manufactured anything for sale to the general public, it cannot by definition be a "manufacturer" of anything, automobile or otherwise.

Sense makes to me ......

 

[Johnny Acree]

copied from floydv.
(3) Louisiana law defines "manufacturer" as "any person, resident or nonresident, who fabricates, manufactures, or assembles motor vehicles,
(5) "Motorcycle" is defined as "a motor vehicle, and, "Autocycle" means a three-wheeled motorcycle.

So in Louisiana an Elio is a motor vehicle.

That has not been manufactured yet!