The Real P5 ?

[Ekh]

Not sure how. It appears to be entirely outside the body in a shell running down the side of the vehicle.

If you have a car made in the last 10-15 years, the exhaust pipe from the much higher-horsepower engine likely runs directly under your cup holders now. Have you noticed excessive heat there?

I'm not going to second-guess Elio's engineers since they know more about what works aerodynamically than I do. Do you know more than they do?

I'd have to go measure, but I think the exhaust is about 2 feet from my cup-holders, with a lot of moving air insulating that space. In the Elio, it looks like about 4" from the cup holder, with the exhaust running in an enclosed tunnel. Not the same thing. I like my coffee warm, but not my right thigh. But you're probably right, and they've taken heat dissipation into account.

 

[Rickb]

I think the Blue P5 CAD renderings are not early drawings, they are finalized engineering production part and body moldings and will only change if indicated by the P5 fabrication, fit, finish, and testing and evolve into and throughout the E6-25 builds with only minor tweaks.

 

[Reid3400]

I'm not going to second-guess Elio's engineers since they know more about what works aerodynamically than I do. Do you know more than they do?

Neither you nor I know what Elio's engineers know or what they have done in aerodynamic testing? It is good that you don't second guess engineers.
What I do know is that by simply increasing the radius of the windshield posts in our homebuilt and using a fairing at the intersection between the wing and windshield you can pick up 3 mph which is calculated to be 8hp, when we only have a 160hp engine. There are dozens of other small changes which all add up to many miles per hour and fuel savings. The gains will not be as great at 70mph as 150mph, but aerodynamics really need full scale wind tunnel testing to read the drag. My father spend part of his life building 3/5 scale aircraft for wind tunnel drag tests and even they did not translate to full size tests. Smaller models are even worse when it comes to predicting the drag of a full sized vehicle . I learned a lot from these tests and from the data my father shared with me. I also have 40+ years of experimental aircraft ownership and experience with understanding what makes little planes go faster. The Elio wheel pants are an ugly looking compromise between reducing drag and appearance. I therefore hope the artists rendering of the sharp corners is nothing like the real P-5? And I hope the Elio is subject to some actual tests, not just computer simulations? I think the engine air inlet of the Elio is perhaps twice as large as it needs to be and can't wait to get my hands on one to prove it. So far automotive engineers have spent 100% of their effort fine tuning air inlets while completely ignoring the outlets. Having 3" radius exits for air instead of sharp 90° transitions will allow you to reduce the inlet size and resultant drag significantly. Check out what this firm has done going back to the beginning; http://www.loprestispeedmerchants.com/

 

[Ekh]

Neither you nor I know what Elio's engineers know or what they have done in aerodynamic testing? It is good that you don't second guess engineers.
What I do know is that by simply increasing the radius of the windshield posts in our homebuilt and using a fairing at the intersection between the wing and windshield you can pick up 3 mph which is calculated to be 8hp, when we only have a 160hp engine. There are dozens of other small changes which all add up to many miles per hour and fuel savings. The gains will not be as great at 70mph as 150mph, but aerodynamics really need full scale wind tunnel testing to read the drag. My father spend part of his life building 3/5 scale aircraft for wind tunnel drag tests and even they did not translate to full size tests. Smaller models are even worse when it comes to predicting the drag of a full sized vehicle . I learned a lot from these tests and from the data my father shared with me. I also have 40+ years of experimental aircraft ownership and experience with understanding what makes little planes go faster. The Elio wheel pants are an ugly looking compromise between reducing drag and appearance. I therefore hope the artists rendering of the sharp corners is nothing like the real P-5? And I hope the Elio is subject to some actual tests, not just computer simulations? I think the engine air inlet of the Elio is perhaps twice as large as it needs to be and can't wait to get my hands on one to prove it. So far automotive engineers have spent 100% of their effort fine tuning air inlets while completely ignoring the outlets. Having 3" radius exits for air instead of sharp 90° transitions will allow you to reduce the inlet size and resultant drag significantly. Check out what this firm has done going back to the beginning; http://www.loprestispeedmerchants.com/

Very interesting post. Thanks for sharing your experience with us. Quite a lot of different tech experience in this crowd. Again, thanks.

 

[Smitty901]

I wouldn't put too much hard speculation into very early CAD drawings. They are releasing the basic stuff to the public, I would bet my left one that they have much more detailed renderings behind closed doors.

I would sure hope so.

 

[TCBronson]

I was looking at the P5 sketch and could not tell if the A pillars were any thinner.

 

[Reid3400]

I was looking at the P5 sketch and could not tell if the A pillars were any thinner.

Does the bend look sharper to you or is it just the colour change? And the sharp wide shelf at the lower edge of the side window? Seems so different than the P-4?

 

[pistonboy]

Coss reported from his Portland trip, Elio Motors is relocating Skyz and the dash is possibly being completely redesigned to accommodate Skyz. Currently the dash is well balanced and overall has a good appearance. I hope they do not redesign it such that the place for Skyz looks very "empty" (like something is missing) if no Skyz is present.

(Perhaps Skyz is provided for young people who go through withdrawal symptoms if they do not have a phone or pad in front of them.)

 

[pistonboy]

I was looking at the P5 sketch and could not tell if the A pillars were any thinner.

I don't think the width of the A pillar can be determined from the outside. The outer edge of the windshield is black and the internal A pillar is hidden by this black windshield strip.

 

[pistonboy]

Paul Elio is sacrificing styling for the sake of mpg when gas prices are at their lowest in many years. It is possible these lower gas prices are long term. The market for the Eliowas going to be very large because it appealed to both mpg and sporty minded people. Now that market will be smaller because the sporting people will be less attracted to it. Gone are the striking good looks that grabbed peoples attention.

Paul originally intended to design an economy vehicle. He accidentally designed a vehicle that was also beautiful. Perhaps he does not realize this. He is an engineer. (I am an engineer too.) The field of engineering has a very high nerd index. Many engineers are not in touch with people nor what they like. If Paul Elio would have left the front like it was in the P3 with contoured fenders, open suspension, and diagonal coil-over shocks, many more people would be wanting to buy the Elio. He still has the mpg people but has driven off the sporty people. There will be far fewer buyers. It may be difficult to sell those 250,000 vehicles per year. The future of Elio Motors is less secure.